Atheists "Hijack" Nativity in Santa Monica

#151
#151
DrunkJohnny said:
When someone tells you they don't believe in the tooth fairy do you feel the need to label them?
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If they were tearing down tooth fairy displays, it would be absolutely appropriate. If they were talking football, it would be superfluous and prickish.
 
#152
#152
DrunkJohnny said:
When someone tells you they don't believe in the tooth fairy do you feel the need to label them?
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If we were having a discussion about the existence of the tooth fairy, or about a conflict between believers and non-believers in the tooth fairy, then such a label would be apt, and quite helpful.
 
#155
#155
lumberjack4 said:
Yet in Leviticus 18


My favorite, in Jerimiah 10


Looks like the Bible says co-opting a heathens practices to worship god isn't cool.
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I don't put up a Christmas tree to worship God. I pray to worship God. I put up a Christmas tree because I find it fun, and it looks good in my living room.
 
#156
#156
DrunkJohnny said:
When someone tells you they don't believe in the tooth fairy do you feel the need to label them?
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The problem with that analogy is the existence of the tooth fairy is not in question. The question about the existence of a higher being has been a prevalent theme throughout human history. There is nothing useful about labeling people non-tooth fairy believers.
 
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#161
#161
bamawriter said:
I don't put up a Christmas tree to worship God. I pray to worship God. I put up a Christmas tree because I find it fun, and it looks good in my living room.
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But you're still celebrating Jesus's birthday with a Christmas tree. Or you're engaging in the pagan ritual of celebrating the birth of the sun god after the winter solstice. I don't remember reading where Jesus threw up a Christmas tree on his birthday, so I assume it must be the latter.
 
#162
#162
nbakerld said:
The problem with that analogy is the existence of the tooth fairy is not in question. The question about the existence of a higher being has been a prevalent theme throughout human history. There is nothing useful about labeling people non-tooth fairy believers.
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As far as I'm concerned both are equally improbable.
 
#163
#163
bamawriter said:
Out of pure curiousity, why does the label bother you so much? Is it not an accurate label?
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Why do you think it bothers me, like I said, in the end I don't really care. Call me a self-absorbed heathen for all I care.

Philosophically, I'm arguing it is a label that isn't used with any other non-belief in society.
 
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#164
#164
DrunkJohnny said:
Also, you can't "actively believe" in the non-existence of something. That doesn't even make sense.
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You can if there is no way to prove it one way or the other. There is a difference between "I don't believe in a diety" and "I believe there is no diety." The former implies that you've never been given reason to believe in a diety; the latter implies that you have reason to believe that there is no diety. Thus, the former describes agnositicism, while the latter describes atheism.
 
#165
#165
nbakerld said:
The problem with that analogy is the existence of the tooth fairy is not in question. The question about the existence of a higher being has been a prevalent theme throughout human history. There is nothing useful about labeling people non-tooth fairy believers.
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There is nothing useful about labeling others atheists either. You're not a Muslim Atheist. You're Christian (or whatever you believe).

I don't believe in the existence of a deity of any kind. If I'm called atheist, ok, doesn't mean it is needed. Descriptors for belief make sense, but the descriptors of non-belief shouldn't be needed.
 
#167
#167
bamawriter said:
You can if there is no way to prove it one way or the other. There is a difference between "I don't believe in a diety" and "I believe there is no diety." The former implies that you've never been given reason to believe in a diety; the latter implies that you have reason to believe that there is no diety. Thus, the former describes agnositicism, while the latter describes atheism.
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You are parsing words.

"I don't believe in the existence of any deity."

Now I am an "atheist"....but it is the same exact thing as saying "I believe there is no diety".

Non-belief, no matter how it is stated, is still the same. The affirmation doesn't change.
 
#168
#168
rjd970 said:
There is nothing useful about labeling others atheists either. You're not a Muslim Atheist. You're Christian (or whatever you believe).

I don't believe in the existence of a deity of any kind. If I'm called atheist, ok, doesn't mean it is needed. Descriptors for belief make sense, but the descriptors of non-belief shouldn't be needed.
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Oh so this is a question of whether or not a term is needed? Then this is officially the dumbest conversation I've ever laid eyes on.
 
#169
#169
lumberjack4 said:
But you're still celebrating Jesus's birthday with a Christmas tree. Or you're engaging in the pagan ritual of celebrating the birth of the sun god after the winter solstice. I don't remember reading where Jesus threw up a Christmas tree on his birthday, so I assume it must be the latter.
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There is nothing in the Bible that suggests that Jesus even acknowledged his own birthday.

No matter their source, sometimes decorations are just decorations.
 
#171
#171
lumberjack4 said:
But you're still celebrating Jesus's birthday with a Christmas tree. Or you're engaging in the pagan ritual of celebrating the birth of the sun god after the winter solstice. I don't remember reading where Jesus threw up a Christmas tree on his birthday, so I assume it must be the latter.
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Gv357.jpg
 
#172
#172
nbakerld said:
Oh so this is a question of whether or not a term is needed? Then this is officially the dumbest conversation I've ever laid eyes on.
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You're calling a conversation dumb that you have participated in over the last several pages?

Glad to see you have such a high opinion of yourself over every body else that has contributed over the last 170 posts.

I'm just going to call you a non-muslim from now on, since you think labels of what people don't believe in are so necessary.
 
#174
#174
rjd970 said:
You're calling a conversation dumb that you have participated in over the last several pages?

Glad to see you have such a high opinion of yourself over every body else that has contributed over the last 170 posts.

I'm just going to call you a non-muslim from now on, since you think labels of what people don't believe in are so necessary.
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I was actually talking about your side conversation, and not the thread as a whole. If you've been talking for the last 15 posts about why a term is not needed, I don't know what to tell you. A term is needed just to distinguish what kind of non-believer you are. Agnostic vs Atheist. There is value in that. Non-believers identify more with one or the other. /ridiculously wasteful side conversation
 
#175
#175
bamawriter said:
You can if there is no way to prove it one way or the other. There is a difference between "I don't believe in a diety" and "I believe there is no diety." The former implies that you've never been given reason to believe in a diety; the latter implies that you have reason to believe that there is no diety. Thus, the former describes agnositicism, while the latter describes atheism.
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Agreed in layman terms.

Point of clarification. In philosophy:

Strong (Positive) Atheism: there is no deity
Weak (Negative) Atheism: does not believe in a deity because there is no evidence which points to the existence of a deity
Strong (Positive) Agnosticism: the existence of a deity is can not possibly be known by humans
Weak (Negative) Agnosticism: presently, there is not enough information to know whether a deity exists; but there could be in the future
 
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