Atheists & Spiritualists = Equal Fools

#227
#227
BeecherVol said:
Which do you subscribe to?
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What do you mean?

(You know where I stand on religion, I was merely inserting a chuckle-worthy image I just found online.)

I'm indifferent whether a god exists or not. I subscribe to non-existence, but I wouldn't change my way of life if there was proof of existence. I don't fear hell. I was saddened when I came to terms with the belief that I cease to exist when I die, but am relieved to know that when buried my body will help spawn new life and will continue to do so until all life ceases to exist.
 
#228
#228
VOLatile said:
What do you mean?

(You know where I stand on religion, I was merely inserting a chuckle-worthy image I just found online.)

I'm indifferent whether a god exists or not. I subscribe to non-existence, but I wouldn't change my way of life if there was proof of existence. I don't fear hell. I was saddened when I came to terms with the belief that I cease to exist when I die, but am relieved to know that when buried my body will help spawn new life and will continue to do so until all life ceases to exist.
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You somewhat answered it, I didn't really clarify what I meant very well.

I would have to imagine that most of those who do not believe, would hope that God does not exist. Given the description of hell and its duration.
 
#230
#230
rjd970 said:
What I gather from you is some things in this world cannot be presently explained by empirical means, so the supernatural/spiritual explanation deserves equal consideration. This is where we disagree.
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I don't think that people believe in God because they can't explain certain things. I think they believe in God first, and then filter the lack-of-explanation things through that.

Belief rarely exists as a last-ditch means of explanation.
 
#231
#231
StepCross said:
No, not really. Why would anyone hope that?
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When you die would you rather that be it?
Or would you rather spend eternity separated from God?

Its not the first time I have asked this question to numerous people. I have gotten both answers, but more have stated they hope there is not one for that basic reason.
 
#232
#232
BeecherVol said:
You somewhat answered it, I didn't really clarify what I meant very well.

I would have to imagine that most of those who do not believe, would hope that God does not exist. Given the description of hell and its duration.
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I understand now and would have to agree in a good amount of cases, just not mine really. The same can be said about the other side, too. A lot of believers do so because they want a god to exist. They fear for the end of their lives and they want to go to heaven. It's the basic appeal of religion.
 
#233
#233
VOLatile said:
I understand now and would have to agree in a good amount of cases, just not mine really. The same can be said about the other side, too. A lot of believers do so because they want a god to exist. They fear for the end of their lives and they want to go to heaven. It's the basic appeal of religion.
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I think more of them fear hell, moreso than are looking forward to heaven. I believe that is the appeal.
 
#234
#234
BeecherVol said:
I think more of them fear hell, moreso than are looking forward to heaven. I believe that is the appeal.
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Not for visions of grandeur? Do you believe that most churchgoers are not true Christians, like IHTB does? Honestly, I cannot remember.

I had a female coworker comment on a Facebook status this morning saying she doesn't believe in hell. I didn't ask why not, but it was in response to the previous post I made about the Muslims, Christians, and suffering in hell, which I used as my status.
 
#235
#235
BeecherVol said:
When you die would you rather that be it?
Or would you rather spend eternity separated from God?
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I'd prefer that there be a God when I die.

Else, as someone posted earlier, it's just all over--I'll cease to exist. Kind of a sad thought.
 
#236
#236
VOLatile said:
Not for visions of grandeur? Do you believe that most churchgoers are not true Christians, like IHTB does? Honestly, I cannot remember.

I had a female coworker comment on a Facebook status this morning saying she doesn't believe in hell. I didn't ask why not, but it was in response to the previous post I made about the Muslims, Christians, and suffering in hell, which I used as my status.
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I couldn't begin to answer that. Im sure there are some hoping that God takes church attendance or good deeds into account.
 
#237
#237
StepCross said:
I'd prefer that there be a God when I die.

Else, as someone posted earlier, it's just all over--I'll cease to exist. Kind of a sad thought.
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The question was geared more toward those that currently do not believe in him, or believe he exists. With their current state, do they hope he doesn't.
 
#238
#238
BeecherVol said:
The question was geared more toward those that currently do not believe in him, or believe he exists. With their current state, do they hope he doesn't.
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In general, no.

Do you hope there's not a dragon in your bathtub, waiting to eat you?
 
#239
#239
BeecherVol said:
I couldn't begin to answer that. Im sure there are some hoping that God takes church attendance or good deeds into account.
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I see. I was looking for an answer to the question "do you think some people attend church hoping that there is a god, but not believing there is?" (Badly formed original approach on my end, my apologies.)

I've heard this used by some atheists before and tend to believe that there is an unknown portion that think like this. I believe there is a large amount of "closeted atheists" in this country that are scared of the impact that not believing in God will have on their family.

Intentionally vague number descriptives because I am unaware of any polls or facts to back me up on this.

Listening to classical music has made me pretty tired. :loco:
 
#240
#240
StepCross said:
Why does the positive need to "close a loop" either? Neither side particularly has a "burden of proof," unless they're specifically trying to convince someone to change their mind.
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Which is precisely - and all - either side ever attempts to do.

For all of his bluster, I think that this is about the 3rd instance of recent memory where RDJ has grown tiresome of trying to make his point in a similiar fashion, only to "grow tired" of it when it fails to convince.

Why does he continue?

To disproprove and convert.

Just. Like. A. Spiritualist. Again.
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#242
#242
VOLatile said:
I see. I was looking for an answer to the question "do you think some people attend church hoping that there is a god, but not believing there is?" (Badly formed original approach on my end, my apologies.)

I've heard this used by some atheists before and tend to believe that there is an unknown portion that think like this. I believe there is a large amount of "closeted atheists" in this country that are scared of the impact that not believing in God will have on their family.

Intentionally vague number descriptives because I am unaware of any polls or facts to back me up on this.

Listening to classical music has made me pretty tired. :loco:
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Im sure there are some. How many? As I stated before, I would not have the first idea.

As far as being persecuted for not believing in God?
 
#243
#243
IPorange said:
I'm notoriously anything? Sweet. Didn't realize I had so much cred. In any event, I have posted multiple times.

The premise of the thread is silly. I reject the Socratic notion that nothing is knowable, accept knowing nothing. That's basically what you're arguing here. It isn't the same to say one must prove god doesn't exist. There's no logic in proving every null, as you can't absolutely prove any null. Clearly you don't walk around entertaining the existence of fairies and boogie men, since you can't ever fully disprove them. The burden of proof is not on an unbeliever. I'm sure you'll continue to argue otherwise. And that's fine. It's why I haven't participated very much in this thread: it isn't going anywhere, and isn't nearly as clever as you think it is.
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You seem to be devolving, along with RDJ. That's expected, clever or not.

I'll put it another way, just to help you guys:

Everything which science now presently fails to prove about the natural world?

God.

Prove me wrong.
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#244
#244
VOLatile said:
I see. I was looking for an answer to the question "do you think some people attend church hoping that there is a god, but not believing there is?" (Badly formed original approach on my end, my apologies.)

I've heard this used by some atheists before and tend to believe that there is an unknown portion that think like this. I believe there is a large amount of "closeted atheists" in this country that are scared of the impact that not believing in God will have on their family.

Intentionally vague number descriptives because I am unaware of any polls or facts to back me up on this.

Listening to classical music has made me pretty tired. :loco:
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Are you comparing the closets of the Atheists and the homosexuals?
 
#246
#246
rjd970 said:
People are going to believe what they want, I simply argue why I don't believe. The OP says the burden of proof is critical to both sides, I disagree. It is only critical to the side making the claim. In addition to being a non-believer, I also happen to be a non-astrologer...so what. If somebody else is, it is on them to prove why they believe it or why I should, I'm simply saying why I don't believe it, but neither side will get concrete proof one way or the other. It would be absurd to ask the non-believer to produce proof of every nonexistent thing.

I completely reject the premise of the OP and I am just stating why.
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Your assertion of Gods nonexistence is no less a claim than Beecher's insistence that s/he is real.

True?
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#247
#247
StepCross said:
True. Evolution as a science has evidence and research supporting it.

What take equal amounts of faith are the following statements.

(a) "everything exists because God created it."
(b) "everything exists."

To me, those statements are on equal footing. Identical, even, because they're both asserting something unobservable.
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fyp
 
#248
#248
StepCross said:
True. Evolution as a science has evidence and research supporting it.

What take equal amounts of faith are the following statements.

(a) "everything exists because God created it."
(b) "everything exists because it just always WAS, and there is no God."

To me, those statements are on equal footing. Identical, even, because they're both asserting something unobservable.
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Exactly.
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#249
#249
Tenacious D said:
You seem to be devolving, along with RDJ. That's expected, clever or not.

I'll put it another way, just to help you guys:

Everything which science now presently fails to prove about the natural world?

God.

Prove me wrong.
Posted via VolNation Mobile
Click to expand...

So you are saying I just have to wait until the next scientific discovery from the time you made the statement? Okay. I'm sure I'll have something in a week.
 
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