athiests and agnostics know more about religion than churchgoers

[gsvol]

Not as individuals for sure, but the nation as a whole rejected him. God didn't reject them, they rejected both God and the messiah.

For sure, God forgave them over and over again, I get really frustrated by reading Isaiah, but God didn't disinherit them, they did the leaving. There was no, and is no, repentance on the side of Israel as a whole. That's why the Kingdom of God became open to Gentiles, starting with Cornelius.
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A couple of things, perhaps it was God's plan all along that all mankind would be the benfactor of God's blessings and just because Israel may have turned their back on God doesn't mean he turned His back on them, imo.

You're a Christian if you say you're a Christian unless Christ says otherwise. If someone says that they are I take them for their word.
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So you take that at face value, even for those whose religion says they may claim to be Christian in order to advance the law of sharia??

I think there is a lot to be required, that's why I research so much, I want to know. But all I can do is explain my beliefs to others, I have no right to tell anyone whether or not they are a Christian or not. I raise my girls how I think is right but I always stress that they don't do or believe anything just because I told them. They're still too young to fully comprehend that so I can't expound to them but I still have them explain how they learned in school. I don't have to agree with someone to respect what they believe.
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In your research do you ever consider having a personal spiritual relationship on a daily basis with Jesus??

 

[bamacheats]

A couple of things, perhaps it was God's plan all along that all mankind would be the benfactor of God's blessings and just because Israel may have turned their back on God doesn't mean he turned His back on them, imo.






So you take that at face value, even for those whose religion says they may claim to be Christian in order to advance the law of sharia??






In your research do you ever consider having a personal spiritual relationship on a daily basis with Jesus??

Read closely, I clearly stated that God has never turned his back on anyone. Israel as a nation did the turning. Many sincere Jews realize that and have accepted Christ, they wouldn't have needed to if they were in a protected state. Plus, if persons who deny Christ will burn in hell, why does Israel get a free pass? Can't have it both ways.

Obviously not everyone who claims to be a Christian is a Christian, but neither you nor I have the authority or right to make that judgement.

I do so much research so that my relationship with Christ is not hindered by practices or beliefs that he rejects, such as the overtly demonic Halloween.
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[Panthro]

You asked for sources, I provided, but I'm the cynic? I have a 4" binder full of resources about the teaching of the trinity, but for your argument I only used a few that come directly from the Vatican or with its approval.

You provided nothing bit a list of verses, that are often misapplied and taken out of context, and I gave you a bit of research from a Catholic authority and you disagree? You're not disagreeing with me, your disagreeing with fellow Catholics.

Thanks for the well wishes. I'm not a judge of humans, only teachings.
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Wait, so the verses are misapplied and taken out of context when they prove my point, but you can read a recent publication and interpret however you want?
I didn't say that I disagreed with what you posted. You were simply reading it to say what you wanted, which was that Peter never recognized the Trinity. If you read the 1 Peter verse I posted, it could not be clearer that he recognized and worshipped the Father, the Holy Spirit, and Jesus. It is believed that 1 Peter was written by the Apostle Peter while he was a bishop. The fact that the Catholic church didn't introduce the concept of the Trinity as a religious staple until the fourth century hardly proves that the Apostles didn't recognize it. By your interpretation, that would suggest that the church just up and made up the a concept, and forgot to manipulate past writings to reflect their beliefs. You may believe that, but I don't. I gave you credit for finding that it wasn't a part of the church's religious ceremony in the beginning. I didn't know that. But don't read that to say something that it doesn't.
Again, I don't know what your point is with that anyway. Are you saying you don't believe in the Trinity?

 

[gsvol]

Read closely, I clearly stated that God has never turned his back on anyone. Israel as a nation did the turning. Many sincere Jews realize that and have accepted Christ, they wouldn't have needed to if they were in a protected state. Plus, if persons who deny Christ will burn in hell, why does Israel get a free pass? Can't have it both ways.

Obviously not everyone who claims to be a Christian is a Christian, but neither you nor I have the authority or right to make that judgement.

I do so much research so that my relationship with Christ is not hindered by practices or beliefs that he rejects, such as the overtly demonic Halloween.
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Not everyone sits in the same pew.

I doubt PEW's poll saying that atheists and agnostics know more about religion than churchgoers.

IMO part of a continuing campaign to cast Christian believers and dumb, backward and ignorant.

 

[bamacheats]

Wait, so the verses are misapplied and taken out of context when they prove my point, but you can read a recent publication and interpret however you want?
I didn't say that I disagreed with what you posted. You were simply reading it to say what you wanted, which was that Peter never recognized the Trinity. If you read the 1 Peter verse I posted, it could not be clearer that he recognized and worshipped the Father, the Holy Spirit, and Jesus. It is believed that 1 Peter was written by the Apostle Peter while he was a bishop. The fact that the Catholic church didn't introduce the concept of the Trinity as a religious staple until the fourth century hardly proves that the Apostles didn't recognize it. By your interpretation, that would suggest that the church just up and made up the a concept, and forgot to manipulate past writings to reflect their beliefs. You may believe that, but I don't. I gave you credit for finding that it wasn't a part of the church's religious ceremony in the beginning. I didn't know that. But don't read that to say something that it doesn't.
Again, I don't know what your point is with that anyway. Are you saying you don't believe in the Trinity?

There is not a shred of hint that the Apostle Peter ever believed in a Trinity. He was a Jew, Jews worship a God, not a triune god. Exercise simple logic, no way Peter immediately began worshipping the same God that the pagan Canaanites did. The Canaanites had it right and God's chosen nation at the time didnt?

You're claiming the God of Israel is a completely different God than that of Christianity.

You owe yourself a favor to due a research project on the Catholic church. I'm not a Catholic and I've read the New Catholic Encyclopedia. Start there.

No I do not believe in the Trinity. It's a pagan teaching. Ask a pagan, they're around.
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[bamacheats]

Not everyone sits in the same pew.

I doubt PEW's poll saying that atheists and agnostics know more about religion than churchgoers.

IMO part of a continuing campaign to cast Christian believers and dumb, backward and ignorant.

You'd really be shocked if you learn of the UN's task force on religion.
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[Panthro]

There is not a shred of hint that the Apostle Peter ever believed in a Trinity. He was a Jew, Jews worship a God, not a triune god. Exercise simple logic, no way Peter immediately began worshipping the same God that the pagan Canaanites did. The Canaanites had it right and God's chosen nation at the time didnt?

You're claiming the God of Israel is a completely different God than that of Christianity.

You owe yourself a favor to due a research project on the Catholic church. I'm not a Catholic and I've read the New Catholic Encyclopedia. Start there.

No I do not believe in the Trinity. It's a pagan teaching. Ask a pagan, they're around.
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And there goes all credibility you may have earned! Don't even know where to start because not a line of your post makes any sense at all.
By they way, I completed RCIA in 2009 through the Catholic Church and read the New Catholic Catechism for Adults. I'm officially done with this thread, because with your ridiculous responses, I might as well be talking to a wall.

 

[bamacheats]

And there goes all credibility you may have earned! Don't even know where to start because not a line of your post makes any sense at all.
By they way, I completed RCIA in 2009 through the Catholic Church and read the New Catholic Catechism for Adults. I'm officially done with this thread, because with your ridiculous responses, I might as well be talking to a wall.

I havn't made any personal criticisms of the Trinity, I've provided sources of Catholic/Vatican origin that plainly state that the Apostolic Fathers DID NOT believe in a trinity. That's the Vatican, not bamacheats. Your problem is that you realize you've not done due diligence in your beliefs. I've not even ventured into discussing the hundreds of millions of dollars in settlements to protect pedophile priests or even the rampant bloodshed of innocent blood during the inquisition, or even the Vatican's cooperation with Adolph Hitler which Pope John Paul issued an apology for.

You're bent out of shape over ONE teaching that you choose to blindly believe. I don't want you to find me credible, you don't know me, it would be stupid to believe what I say. I provided sources with specifics and you won't even research those to even check if they are correct.

Unfortunately for catholicism the Vatican is bleeding profusely and more will be revealed shortly.

Go Vols!
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[Oldvol75]

In the book of Genesis, God says,"let US make man in our image", who is US???

 

[pualsline]

Truly amazing, considering Judaism doesn't have a hell, the word "hell" doesn't exist in the Hebrew language.

I guess it does depend on the version of the Bible you are using "lake of burning sulfur" might be more appropriate.

 

[pualsline]

In the book of Genesis, God says,"let US make man in our image", who is US???

That is believed to be referring to the "trinity"
God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit (some refer to as ghost)

 

[pualsline]

If God is omniscient and omnipotent, how did he "change his mind?"

This is really getting into the idea about predestination "being determined in advance; especially the doctrine (usually associated with Calvin) that God has foreordained every event throughout eternity"

That would raise another question "if God already knows knows what man is going to do because He is omnipotent then why create man?"

This would raise the question of "Can God pick up a rock that is to big for Him to carry?"

Can God choose to not know the future?

I don't know all these answers I am just giving food for thought...

 

[pualsline]

Thanks for the tip. One thing that I am certain of, I'm not blindly believing some guy in the pulpit who is on a payroll and has a financial incentive to tell me what he thinks that I want to hear, or buys his sermons on the internet.
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I think you misunderstand the roll of the minister. Pulpits and sermon's are just a formality that they do. The main purpose for a minister is to deliver the word of God. A large amount of people do not study on their on and Sunday's are the only time they get any type of Biblical referencing. Ministers also will go to see the sick in hospitals, stay with families in times of crisis, pray for their church family, and be of service to their neighbor. (these are things we all should do)

Go and ignore the collection plate 3 times in a row and see what happens.
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ummmm....I have gone to church for about 12 years and never put money into the plate. I give to places that you would never know unless you looked at my bank statement. Nothing has happened...that I am aware of at least.

 

[joevol320]

Coincides with what i've seen on this site:

Atheists, agnostics most knowledgeable about religion, survey says - latimes.com

i would say their hatred for God and Christians would drive them to research. it will be interesting to see them in 100 years. they better hope they're right.

 

[Brog]

i would say their hatred for God and Christians would drive them to research. it will be interesting to see them in 100 years. they better hope they're right.

I don't any atheists who hate christians or the concept of god.
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[BlueHalo]

Pretty sure I was born an atheist.

 

[DinkinFlicka]

i would say their hatred for God and Christians would drive them to research. it will be interesting to see them in 100 years. they better hope they're right.

...

As an atheist, I have no problems with religious folks. As a fairly smart guy, I do detest morons.

 

[Tenacious D]

...

As an atheist, I have no problems with religious folks. As a fairly smart guy, I do detest morons.

How can a self-avowed atheist not find relgious beliefs (and, in turn, their believers) moronic?

I don't believe in pixies, and would find anyone who did to be moronic.

 

[KentheOrange]

How can anyone look at the complexities of the natural world and not believe in intelligent design? I find people that believe in that much chance or accident to be moronic.

 

[IPorange]

How can anyone look at the complexities of the natural world and not believe in intelligent design? I find people that believe in that much chance or accident to be moronic.

I think anyone who thinks the natural world has to be designed is pretty ignorant to the complexities and randomness of it.

 

[Tenacious D]

I think anyone who thinks the natural world has to be designed is pretty ignorant to the complexities and randomness of it.

Aren't the involved complexities an oft-cited reason used in support of intelligent design?

An argument could be made that most things appear to contain some element of randomness, or at worst, variability (the more well-understood older brother of randomness).

 

[rjd970]

Aren't the involved complexities an oft-cited reason used in support of intelligent design?

An argument could be made that most things appear to contain some element of randomness, or at worst, variability (the more well-understood older brother of randomness).

Any idiot can cite reasons they don't fully understand. Doesn't mean what they are arguing is in the least bit valid though.

 

[Tenacious D]

How can anyone look at the complexities of the natural world and not believe in intelligent design? I find people that believe in that much chance or accident to be moronic.

Just because a turd looks like the Mona Lisa should not imply that DaVinci lives in someone's anus.

Many believe that the evolutionary process possesses some form of intelligence - in fact, it's difficult to believe it doesn't - where creationists part ways with science, is in the belief that this was somehow part of a larger "design" or possessed the elements of pre-meditation.

Things evolve over time as a means to adapt and survive - those that cannot, die, leaving us only with those who could. That doesn't necessarily mean that some were designed to live or die, but that circumstances dictated the outcome.

 

[Tenacious D]

Any idiot can cite reasons they don't fully understand. Doesn't mean what they are arguing is in the least bit valid though.

Who's the idiot to which you referred?

Once identified, I'd be interested to learn of how you identified that portion of their argument which you believe to be invalid, and how you've reached this conclusion.

 

[Tenacious D]

Pretty sure I was born an atheist.

How could a true atheist believe otherwise?

It seems impossible that you could have intrinsically believed in the existence of a God at birth, considering that you do not now believe that he exists?

That is, unless he has died since you were born.

Or, unless you want to subscribe to the Lewis (C.S.) theory that all humans are born with an innate understanding of God, and that His existence is now somehow predicatd on your individual dis/belief.

It's much easier, and far less messy, just to disavow any belief, whatsoever, I would think.