athiests and agnostics know more about religion than churchgoers

#326
#326
lumberjack4 said:
If he was filled with the Holy Ghost I am assuming he chose god. Thereby showing that the Bible seems to say that unborn infants are able to chose between heaven or hell. If of course you believe the Bible.
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So you are "assuming" but then act as if it were fact and judging others views based on that? Take the bold part out and we can start over.
 
#327
#327
bamacheats said:
Lazarus is a great example. Lazarus, nor anyone else that was resurrected, came alive saying, "what the hell? I was just kicking it in heaven. Why'd you bring me back here for?" And no one ever said that because they were dead, and when you're dead you're just dead.

I do believe in resurrection, and I believe some are resurrected to heaven. I'm not sure who but that's fine because I don't have the responsibility to judge.

I do know there is no torment. Life is a gift from God. The opposite of life is death, not torture.
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And so you say life can be eternal but death cannot??




lumberjack4 said:
It would seem many Christians on this board disagree.
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It might seem so but why would we need to split hairs?
 
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#328
#328
CSpindizzy said:
So you are "assuming" but then act as if it were fact and judging others views based on that? Take the bold part out and we can start over.
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Actually I don't believe its fact. But if you believe the Bible then it says that an unborn child chose god. Unless you're saying you can be filled with the holy ghost and burn in hell. Its your book not mine.
 
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#331
#331
gsvol said:
And so you say life can be eternal but death cannot??
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How did you arrive at that? I'm saying death can only be eternal for the wicked since hellfire is makebelieve. Righteous who have died will be rewarded with life again.
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#332
#332
bamacheats said:
No need to worry that babies are in Hell because there is no such place of torment. It's a scare tactic. That's why the Catholic Church had to come up with purgatory to explain where unbaptized babies were because they jumped the gun and said if you weren't baptized you're going to burn. They didn't think it through enough. Even the Catholic Church backed off this teaching in recent years.

Ironic really, the Catholic Church trying to scare people into believing. Not like them at all.
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The ignorance on this thread is comical.
Just so you know, the concept of purgatory was mentioned in Maccabees long before the birth of Christ. Not sure how Christians could have "come up with" a concept when Christianity didn't exist yet.
Furthermore, purgatory is a concept misunderstood by those who don't care about the truth, they just enjoy trying to tear down the Catholic Church. It is widely accepted that no impure thing can enter the gates of heaven. It's also understood that no human is sinless. If anything, the concept of purgatory is used to describe the process of purifying a soul before it enters the gates of heaven. People insist on viewing it as a waiting room where a soul will rest for years and years. Remember that in eternity, time is nothing. Purgatory's cleansing process can be instantaneous.
This is how it was explained to me by the new Bishop of east TN.
 
#333
#333
Panthro said:
The ignorance on this thread is comical.
Just so you know, the concept of purgatory was mentioned in Maccabees long before the birth of Christ. Not sure how Christians could have "come up with" a concept when Christianity didn't exist yet.
Furthermore, purgatory is a concept misunderstood by those who don't care about the truth, they just enjoy trying to tear down the Catholic Church. It is widely accepted that no impure thing can enter the gates of heaven. It's also understood that no human is sinless. If anything, the concept of purgatory is used to describe the process of purifying a soul before it enters the gates of heaven. People insist on viewing it as a waiting room where a soul will rest for years and years. Remember that in eternity, time is nothing. Purgatory's cleansing process can be instantaneous.
This is how it was explained to me by the new Bishop of east TN.
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Oh wise one. Purgatory actually has pagan roots stemming from ancient Babylon. My point was that the Catholic Church made it a "Christian" teaching even though it has no scriptural backing. But that doesn't matter much because Catholics do not use the Bible.
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#334
#334
bamacheats said:
Oh wise one. Purgatory actually has pagan roots stemming from ancient Babylon. My point was that the Catholic Church made it a "Christian" teaching even though it has no scriptural backing. But that doesn't matter much because Catholics do not use the Bible.
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What the heck are you even talking about? Do you have any idea at all, or are you just randomly typing things that pop into your head. I attend Mass every week, and I can assure you that we have three readings from the Bible every Sunday.
 
#336
#336
Panthro said:
What the heck are you even talking about? Do you have any idea at all, or are you just randomly typing things that pop into your head. I attend Mass every week, and I can assure you that we have three readings from the Bible every Sunday.
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Wow! Three readings! My bad. Three is a lot.

I don't disparage a member of the Catholic church because most are sincere and honestly want to serve God properly. But the Vatican, from my own personal research, is anything but sincere and honest.
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#339
#339
bamacheats said:
Wow! Three readings! My bad. Three is a lot.

I don't disparage a member of the Catholic church because most are sincere and honestly want to serve God properly. But the Vatican, from my own personal research, is anything but sincere and honest.
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Perhaps your earlier comment that, "Catholics don't even use the bible" somewhat skewed your obvious reverence for its parishioners?

Given the absolute authority of the Vatican, it seems impossible to separate it from its believers.

So, which is it - do you dislike Catholics, or not? You seem conflicted.

As a follow-up: What about Jews?
 
#340
#340
Also, if you are going to accuse a church of having anything to do with scripture and manipulating it's followers, how about the protestant church. Purgatory, or a middle ground for purification, is mentioned in 2 Maccabees 12:44-45, but Martin Luther had it removed. If I'm going to be a part of a church, I prefer to follow the one started by Jesus's homeboy, Peter...not by some dude who wanted to start a new church 1600 years later, who also wanted to take books out of the Bible.
Looking for more scriptural references? Check out Matthew 12:32
 
#341
#341
For the record, I have nothing against protestants. I was defensive about my church and may have sounded snippy there about protestants. Not intended.
 
#342
#342
Panthro said:
Also, if you are going to accuse a church of having anything to do with scripture and manipulating it's followers, how about the protestant church. Purgatory, or a middle ground for purification, is mentioned in 2 Maccabees 12:44-45, but Martin Luther had it removed. If I'm going to be a part of a church, I prefer to follow the one started by Jesus's homeboy, Peter...not by some dude who wanted to start a new church 1600 years later, who also wanted to take books out of the Bible.
Looking for more scriptural references? Check out Matthew 12:32
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Actually it was the Catholic church that first got me intrigued about God and how we should worship. Eighth grade history, WW2, unintentionally I'm sure, the chapter had pictures of soldiers being blessed by priests. One American on one page, a few pages later, a German. Which child of God was getting his prayer heard? Catholics killing Catholics. I had a hard time reconciling that.

The Catholic church wasn't founded on Peter, another lie by the Vatican. Maccabees isn't inspired, ML had it right. Plus, now you're conflicted. You say, correctly, purgatory is a teaching older than Christianity but its still Christian. Can't be. Jesus would have clearly stated it, he didn't come to adopt old teachings.
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#343
#343
bamacheats said:
Actually it was the Catholic church that first got me intrigued about God and how we should worship. Eighth grade history, WW2, unintentionally I'm sure, the chapter had pictures of soldiers being blessed by priests. One American on one page, a few pages later, a German. Which child of God was getting his prayer heard? Catholics killing Catholics. I had a hard time reconciling that.

The Catholic church wasn't founded on Peter, another lie by the Vatican. Maccabees isn't inspired, ML had it right. Plus, now you're conflicted. You say, correctly, purgatory is a teaching older than Christianity but its still Christian. Can't be. Jesus would have clearly stated it, he didn't come to adopt old teachings.
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Of course he did. There were other reasons, of course, but he was here to preach about God the Father. The same God discussed in the old testament, which was used before the birth of Christ. Those same books are used for the Catholic Bible's old testament today.
The Ten Commandments are a teaching older than Christ but still recognized by teh Christian church.
 
#344
#344
Panthro said:
Also, if you are going to accuse a church of having anything to do with scripture and manipulating it's followers, how about the protestant church. Purgatory, or a middle ground for purification, is mentioned in 2 Maccabees 12:44-45, but Martin Luther had it removed. If I'm going to be a part of a church, I prefer to follow the one started by Jesus's homeboy, Peter...not by some dude who wanted to start a new church 1600 years later, who also wanted to take books out of the Bible.
Looking for more scriptural references? Check out Matthew 12:32
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I thought that there was considerably more to his reasoning than that, but I'm likely mistaken, and your summation is completely accurate.
 
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#345
#345
Panthro said:
Of course he did. There were other reasons, of course, but he was here to preach about God the Father. The same God discussed in the old testament, which was used before the birth of Christ. Those same books are used for the Catholic Bible's old testament today.
The Ten Commandments are a teaching older than Christ but still recognized by teh Christian church.
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Referring to the Mosaic Law, which included the 10 commandments, had a purpose of allowing the nation of Israel, as God's adopted nation at the time, to recognize the need for Christ and to readily identify him. That nation didn't worship a trinity. The Vatican does. Apostle Peter didn't worship a trinity.
Christ did not adopt teachings of pagan nations such as purgatory (babylon) and trinity (babylon, Canaan). No need for the bible to prove that. That info is readily available in any library.
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#346
#346
Where have you seen that Peter didn't recognize the Trinity?
Eagerly awaiting this works cited!
 
#347
#347
bamacheats said:
How did you arrive at that? I'm saying death can only be eternal for the wicked since hellfire is makebelieve. Righteous who have died will be rewarded with life again.
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So you are saying the gospel is based on good works and those who do can pass go and collect $200 and those who don't just disappear and cease to exist??





bamacheats said:
Oh wise one. Purgatory actually has pagan roots stemming from ancient Babylon. My point was that the Catholic Church made it a "Christian" teaching even though it has no scriptural backing. But that doesn't matter much because Catholics do not use the Bible.
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How about Mathew 23:15 which is supposed to have been uttered by the tongue of Jesus??




Panthro said:
For the record, I have nothing against protestants. I was defensive about my church and may have sounded snippy there about protestants. Not intended.
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Any opinion of Baptists??

FWIW I didn't think you were snippy at all. Want snippy? Read some of the posts of the non-believers, man do they ever get contorted at times.




bamacheats said:
Referring to the Mosaic Law, which included the 10 commandments, had a purpose of allowing the nation of Israel, as God's adopted nation at the time, to recognize the need for Christ and to readily identify him. That nation didn't worship a trinity. The Vatican does. Apostle Peter didn't worship a trinity.
Christ did not adopt teachings of pagan nations such as purgatory (babylon) and trinity (babylon, Canaan). No need for the bible to prove that. That info is readily available in any library.
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Has God disavowed his adoption of the nation of Israel recently?? I must have missed that.
 
#348
#348
Panthro said:
Where have you seen that Peter didn't recognize the Trinity?
Eagerly awaiting this works cited!
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Where have you seen that he did? Constantine brought that with him. Have you not researched your own religion?
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#349
#349
bamacheats said:
Where have you seen that he did? Constantine brought that with him. Have you not researched your own religion?
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I have. That's why I find all of your claims so enlightening...because they go against what so many others have supported for years!
I'll throw this in with your claim that Catholics don't use the Bible, Catholics "came up with" purgatory, and Peter didn't have anything to do with the start of Catholicism.
The Trinity is the single biggest component of the Catholic Church. Peter is recognized as the first Pope. Based on those two factors, I find it hard to believe that he didn't believe in the Trinity.
 
#350
#350
The New Catholic Encyclopedia states: "The formulation 'one God in three Persons' was not solidly established, certainly not fully assimilated into Christian life and its profession of faith, prior to the end of the 4th century. But it is precisely this formulation that has first claim to the title The Trinitarian Dogma. Among the Apostolic Fathers, there had been nothing even remotely approaching such a mentality or perspective." - New Catholic Encyclopedia, 1967, Vol. IV, p.299


It kills me how people don't do any research and will just blindly believe anything as important as eternal salvation.
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