athiests and agnostics know more about religion than churchgoers

[J-P]

Frankly, from my personal perspective, not sharing the message of salvation would be the easy course. Sharing it often leads to arguments, ridicule, alienation, suspicion.

 

[IPorange]

The convicting power of God can come over the goat and the goat can be saved by the grace of God and become one of God's sheep.

Evolution? hmy:

 

[IPorange]

Frankly, from my personal perspective, not sharing the message of salvation would be the easy course. Sharing it often leads to arguments, ridicule, alienation, suspicion.

So does not sharing the beliefs of Christians in the South.

 

[droski]

Forget how I "know" this, for the moment. If, by whatever means, I am absolutely convinced that you are going to hell, what is the benevolent course of action? To warn you or to keep it to myself.

Even Penn Jillette, who I believe is an avowed agnostic, admitted that he respected the fact that Christians would be motivated by their concern for him enough to warn him.

are you doing it for me or for yourself? have you really thought about that? as an example i very much doubt you'd appreciate me telling you that you are absolutely 100% wasting your time going to church. even though, by your logic, it would be the right thing for me to tell you this.

 

[VOLatile]

Referring back to page 1... I'm so late to this.

This. I don't think I've ever met someone who was born an atheist.

Show me one person that was born religious. Everyone's taught their religion or non-religion.

 

[IPorange]

are you doing it for me or for yourself? have you really thought about that?

You'll never get that kind of naked honesty out of anyone.

 

[IPorange]

Referring back to page 1... I'm so late to this.



Show me one person that was born religious. Everyone's taught their religion or non-religion.

I for one, began life as an apple sauce cultist.

 

[VOLatile]

I for one, began life as an apple sauce cultist.

And I began life unable to make decisions for myself, so my parents made decisions for me. Fortunately, that was mainly what to feed me, what to wear, and when to change my diaper. They left religion to when I was able to think for myself, against my aunt, uncle, and grandma's wishes, of course.

 

[J-P]

So does not sharing the beliefs of Christians in the South.

Well then, on behalf of Christians, I extend my sincerest apologies. :hi:

 

[Gramps]

Mal. 3:6 - "I am the Lord, I change not."

James 1:17 - "Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness"

Explain again that God changed his mind. Now he's not only a hypocrite but a liar. Someone will surely burn in hell for that.
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Why do you think God changed his mind?

The old testament is full of prophecies telling of the coming of Christ. Jesus Christ fullfilled the Prochecies of the Old Testament.

 

[bamacheats]

Why do you think God changed his mind?

The old testament is full of prophecies telling of the coming of Christ. Jesus Christ fullfilled the Prochecies of the Old Testament.

Missed the hellfire prophecy. Scripture?
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[J-P]

are you doing it for me or for yourself? have you really thought about that? as an example i very much doubt you'd appreciate me telling you that you are absolutely 100% wasting your time going to church. even though, by your logic, it would be the right thing for me to tell you this.

I know this is going to sound corny, but frankly, I am doing it in obedience to Christ. He told his followers to share the good news of salvation. The belief part is God's business, not mine or any Christians. That is between you and God. Try as I might, I can not save anyone. I couldn't even save myself.

If you sincerely believe I am completely wasting my time by going to church, and you told me, I would take absolutely no offense to it. I wouldn't agree and would conclude that you don't have all of the facts, but I wouldn't want to silence you from telling me how you felt about it, especially if you were acting out of concern for me. Even if you set aside the whole spiritual thing, by attending my local church, I am coming in contact with my neighbors, being exposed to opportunities to help them, to learn from them and to get to know them on a personal level.

 

[J-P]

You'll never get that kind of naked honesty out of anyone.

I would absolutely hope that is what he would get from me. I strive hard to not be dishonest.

Do I fail? Likely sometimes. But I really do try to speak truth.

I have actually been accused most often of speaking too plainly and hurting people's feelings that way.

 

[droski]

I know this is going to sound corny, but frankly, I am doing it in obedience to Christ. He told his followers to share the good news of salvation. The belief part is God's business, not mine or any Christians. That is between you and God. Try as I might, I can not save anyone. I couldn't even save myself.

If you sincerely believe I am completely wasting my time by going to church, and you told me, I would take absolutely no offense to it. I wouldn't agree and would conclude that you don't have all of the facts, but I wouldn't want to silence you from telling me how you felt about it, especially if you were acting out of concern for me. Even if you set aside the whole spiritual thing, by attending my local church, I am coming in contact with my neighbors, being exposed to opportunities to help them, to learn from them and to get to know them on a personal level.

i was watching a infomercial last sunday and a preacher was saying that he was so inspired by (whatever it was, i don't remember) that he immediately went and confronted his neighbor who was cutting his lawn on a sat morning to tell him he was going to hell (his words, not mine). I understand you truly believe you are helping people, but taht doesn't give you free reign to ruin a guys sat morning (not saying you do this btw). I'm a firm believer of personal freedom, as are many christians, and part of that personal freedom is respecting other peoples opinions. and it's extremely condesending for you to tell me i'm an idiot and you know the truth. I wouldn't dare suggest the same to you. This isn't about religion, this is about common decency. something jesus, i'd imagine, would be in favor of. once again i'm not talking about you specifically.

 

[Gramps]

Missed the hellfire prophecy. Scripture?
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The Prophecies in the old testament are concerning Christ and are fulfilled in the new testamant.

The old testament warns people about hell on several instances.
Here are a few examples:

Deuteronomy 32:22
For a fire is kindled in mine anger, and shall burn unto the lowest hell, and shall consume the earth with her increase, and set on fire the foundations of the mountains

Psalm 9:17
The wicked shall be turned into hell, and all the nations that forget God.

Psalm 55:15
Let death seize upon them, and let them go down quick into hell: for wickedness is in their dwellings, and among them

Proverbs 7:27
Her house is the way to hell, going down to the chambers of death.

Isaiah 28:18
And your covenant with death shall be disannulled, and your agreement with hell shall not stand; when the overflowing scourge shall pass through, then ye shall be trodden down by it.

 

[J-P]

i was watching a infomercial last sunday and a preacher was saying that he was so inspired by (whatever it was, i don't remember) that he immediately went and confronted his neighbor who was cutting his lawn on a sat morning to tell him he was going to hell (his words, not mine). I understand you truly believe you are helping people, but taht doesn't give you free reign to ruin a guys sat morning (not saying you do this btw). I'm a firm believer of personal freedom, as are many christians, and part of that personal freedom is respecting other peoples opinions. and it's extremely condesending for you to tell me i'm an idiot and you know the truth. I wouldn't dare suggest the same to you. This isn't about religion, this is about common decency. something jesus, i'd imagine, would be in favor of. once again i'm not talking about you specifically.

This gets directly back to the topic of this thread. A lot of folks need to spend a lot more time getting to understand what they profess to believe in. I don't know everything, and often I struggle with some of the more poetic or prophetic parts of the scriptures, but I spend a lot more time studying and trying to understand the scriptures than just attending a one hour Sunday school class. I attend BSF on Monday nights, do a daily study complete with questions that have to be answered, participate in a discussion group, etc.

It kind of reminds me of my paddling days (whitewater). We spent a lot of time learning to paddle, working our way up from simple rapids to more difficult ones, learning to self-rescue, to read what the river was doing, water rescue techniques and all that. Often, as we were launching on a difficult river, we would run into someone that saw some kayakers doing squirts and surfing holes in the middle of a rapid, making it look easy, and they had rushed out and gotten a boat and were about to launch onto a river without knowing anything about the dangers they were about to face nor the seriousness of what they were about to be engaged in.

Sadly, a large percentage of Christians these days are just like those guys. Having the title pastor or minister these days doesn't mean they know much of anything about Christ.

 

[IPorange]

The Prophecies in the old testament are concerning Christ and are fulfilled in the new testamant.

The old testament warns people about hell on several instances.
Here are a few examples:

Deuteronomy 32:22
For a fire is kindled in mine anger, and shall burn unto the lowest hell, and shall consume the earth with her increase, and set on fire the foundations of the mountains

Psalm 9:17
The wicked shall be turned into hell, and all the nations that forget God.

Psalm 55:15
Let death seize upon them, and let them go down quick into hell: for wickedness is in their dwellings, and among them

Proverbs 7:27
Her house is the way to hell, going down to the chambers of death.

Isaiah 28:18
And your covenant with death shall be disannulled, and your agreement with hell shall not stand; when the overflowing scourge shall pass through, then ye shall be trodden down by it.

Truly amazing, considering Judaism doesn't have a hell, the word "hell" doesn't exist in the Hebrew language.

 

[IBlvNTmWrk]

For those who have read only posts in this thread, or the link to the article provided by the OP, it may be of interest to further understand the survey and questions.

Not that the OP's thread title is incorrect, but it seems there has been some debate as to whether Christians know as much as atheists or agnostics about the Bible and/or Christianity. Point being... there were 32 total questions asked and many of them were about things that have nothing to do with either of those topics, so it is not surprising that education level is actually the biggest differentiator. Further, since atheists and agnostics perhaps spend more time studying other religions it would only seem logical that they may be more knowledgeable in comparison to someone who grew up Christian and has only studied Christianity. That said, here are a few samples...

1. 68% knew that the Constitution says "the government shall neither establish a religion nor interfere with the practice of religion."
2. 51% knew Joseph Smith was a Mormon
3. 54% could name the Quran as Islam's holy text
4. 8% knew Maimonides was an influential Jewish rabbi
5. 11% knew that the fiery preacher and theologian who participated in the First Great Awakening, an 18th-century Protestant revival, was Jonathan Edwards
6. 27% knew most people in Indonesia are Muslims
7. 19% of Protestants knew the basic tenet that salvation is through faith alone, not actions as well

I threw the last one in as a point of interest since it has been part of some prior discussion in another thread.

On the other hand, I did find the following interesting...

Holding other factors constant, people who read Scripture at least once a week get roughly two additional questions right on average compared with those who seldom or never read Scripture.

Unless atheists and agnostics are part of the group that reads scripture once a week, those who spend time in the Word would seem to be more knowledgeable.

Following is a link to more of the survey details for those who are interested...

U.S. Religious Knowledge Survey - Factors Linked With Religious Knowledge - Pew Forum on Religion & Public Life

 

[tri_vol]

Hell prophecy found at Ps. 16:10 referenced by Peter at Acts 2:25-27, 29-32 and applied to Jesus. Jesus went to hell. Maybe its not a burning place of torment.

 

[IPorange]

Hell prophecy found at Ps. 16:10 referenced by Peter at Acts 2:25-27, 29-32 and applied to Jesus. Jesus went to hell. Maybe its not a burning place of torment.

That's the thing. Revisionist translations replace Sheol with hell now. That's now that it said.

 

[bamacheats]

The Prophecies in the old testament are concerning Christ and are fulfilled in the new testamant.

The old testament warns people about hell on several instances.
Here are a few examples:

Deuteronomy 32:22
For a fire is kindled in mine anger, and shall burn unto the lowest hell, and shall consume the earth with her increase, and set on fire the foundations of the mountains

Psalm 9:17
The wicked shall be turned into hell, and all the nations that forget God.

Psalm 55:15
Let death seize upon them, and let them go down quick into hell: for wickedness is in their dwellings, and among them

Proverbs 7:27
Her house is the way to hell, going down to the chambers of death.

Isaiah 28:18
And your covenant with death shall be disannulled, and your agreement with hell shall not stand; when the overflowing scourge shall pass through, then ye shall be trodden down by it.

Jewish historian Josephus recorded that the early Christians didn't believe in a hellfire, they believed and taught that when you died you're dead, that simple, but Christ opened the way for a resurrection to eternal life for the faithful.

Hellfire didn't become a "christian" teaching until Constantine, the pagan, converted for political reasons. History proves that the apostasy that Christ warned about would bring false teachers and this is a pagan teaching that wasn't believed by Jesus' apostles.

In addition, to understand many parts, the original language must be considered and there is no phrase or word in the original language to even hint at eternal damnation.

Those scriptures are not prophecy of eternal hellfire.
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[tigervol9802]

That's the thing. Revisionist translations replace Sheol with hell now. That's now that it said.

Sheol for a lack of better term most often means grave.

The concept of afterlife was around in OT times as it was one of the issues of difference bt the pharisees and saducees.

Salvation as best as I can explain was forward looking through faith and sacrifices.

 

[VolBurgers]

never said that, just pointing out differences in thought process.....faith is just that.....science that can be proven?....well that is a WHOLE nuther topic

Good post.

I don't have a problem with believers until they try and mix the two.

By, you know, trying to get things like Intelligent Design taught in schools. Or the earth is 6,000 years old and dinosaurs and humans lived at the same time, or any other nonsensical rubbish.

Stay out of schools and its all cool with me :salute:

 

[Oldvol75]

Well reading this has been interesting to say the least!

Did God change His mind about Hell? No, The 3 days that Christ was "in the tomb" those 3 days where used for leading captivity out, he was 3 days in the center of the earth. There was a place called paradise where those that had died went. Jesus on the cross told one of the two thieves hanging with Him that today he would be with Him in paradise, Christ did not say heaven.

The Great White Throne Judgement, which comes after the Judgement seat of Christ,(for us Christians), the books will be opened and then those the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire. Rev. 20:13-15

J-P is right, it is our duty to tell others of our faith, Christs on words even teach us that we will be hated by men because of Him, that the world hated him first. He also told us to go into the earth and teach the gospel. Do I offend? YES! But life is to short to worry about that. I'm secure in what I believe and why I believe it, just as I am sure that some of you are too. But its a choice that we all have to make. I can not make the first person believe or not believe. My job is to merely proclaim the gospel, some will believe and some will not. That part is not on me. Will I still pray for those that don't believe, you bet I will.

There was also alot of talk about the church. Most of it correct, sadly. My congragation is different. We still have our Bible study on Wednesday nights, We still have Sunday school and church service. On Sunday nights we do something different, we have Bible discussion, all people are alike and have questions about the Bible. We go to the fellowship hall and sit around and ask questions. We all then sit around and search the Bible and come up with answers that the Bible really gives, not what traditions say. We use the Bible, Concordances, Greek/Hebrew Dictionaries, and other soures to help us look. We are trying as a church to get as close as humanly possible to search the Word and use it and only it as our guide. We are a Southern Baptist Church.

















;

 

[IBlvNTmWrk]

Well reading this has been interesting to say the least!

Did God change His mind about Hell? No, The 3 days that Christ was "in the tomb" those 3 days where used for leading captivity out, he was 3 days in the center of the earth. There was a place called paradise where those that had died went. Jesus on the cross told one of the two thieves hanging with Him that today he would be with Him in paradise, Christ did not say heaven.

The Great White Throne Judgement, which comes after the Judgement seat of Christ,(for us Christians), the books will be opened and then those the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire. Rev. 20:13-15

J-P is right, it is our duty to tell others of our faith, Christs on words even teach us that we will be hated by men because of Him, that the world hated him first. He also told us to go into the earth and teach the gospel. Do I offend? YES! But life is to short to worry about that. I'm secure in what I believe and why I believe it, just as I am sure that some of you are too. But its a choice that we all have to make. I can not make the first person believe or not believe. My job is to merely proclaim the gospel, some will believe and some will not. That part is not on me. Will I still pray for those that don't believe, you bet I will.

There was also alot of talk about the church. Most of it correct, sadly. My congragation is different. We still have our Bible study on Wednesday nights, We still have Sunday school and church service. On Sunday nights we do something different, we have Bible discussion, all people are alike and have questions about the Bible. We go to the fellowship hall and sit around and ask questions. We all then sit around and search the Bible and come up with answers that the Bible really gives, not what traditions say. We use the Bible, Concordances, Greek/Hebrew Dictionaries, and other soures to help us look. We are trying as a church to get as close as humanly possible to search the Word and use it and only it as our guide. We are a Southern Baptist Church.

That's awesome OV. If I'm ever in the area I'd like to visit your church.