Atlanta Braves II

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#9,702
#9,702
Question!

Did John Smoltz really pitch with a torn UCL (TJ surgery on the ligament) and change his arm slot to pitch in 1999?
 
#9,703
#9,703
zjcvols said:
Question!

Did John Smoltz really pitch with a torn UCL (TJ surgery on the ligament) and change his arm slot to pitch in 1999?
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Absolutely. He figured out how to drop down somewhere between 3/4 and sidearm into a slot that didn't hurt.
 
#9,704
#9,704
zjcvols said:
Reading the full blast article on Rocker by Pearlman.

God, how could Braves fans cheer for him?
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Same reason there were people holding rallies in Arkansas in support of Petrino. Rocker was really, really good for awhile. Plus southerners are not exactly people who get bent out of shape by "un-PC comments," which is how much of the toothless contingent dismissed what he said. The article came out in the offseason, which meant that it didn't have to be addressed immediately. He had a ton of support for awhile.

Then he stopped pitching so well and the Braves had their excuse to get rid of him. You still saw ROCKER jerseys around the ballpark for a couple years afterwards though. People are idiots.
 
#9,706
#9,706
Vercingetorix said:
Same reason there were people holding rallies in Arkansas in support of Petrino. Rocker was really, really good for awhile. Plus southerners are not exactly people who get bent out of shape by "un-PC comments," which is how much of the toothless contingent dismissed what he said. The article came out in the offseason, which meant that it didn't have to be addressed immediately. He had a ton of support for awhile.

Then he stopped pitching so well and the Braves had their excuse to get rid of him. You still saw ROCKER jerseys around the ballpark for a couple years afterwards though. People are idiots.
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Maybe, I'm naive, but Rocker also made comments against blacks...and well, Atlanta is known for its black population...
 
#9,708
#9,708
zjcvols said:
Interesting.

Please, do tell more (if you don't mind).
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There's not a lot to tell. Basically, he was riding around ATL with a writer from SI that was doing a piece on him. Rocker put on a show trying to be cool and buddy up with the guy and it never dawned on him that the guy 1) Wasn't there to buddy up and be impressed and 2) anything he said was fair game to end up in Sports Illustrated.

For Rocker's sake, I wish the Braves had sent a PR guy with them on that car ride, but like I said, it was a meathead being a meathead and let's just say that Rocker got big and became prone to outbursts around the same time . . . if you know what I mean.
 
#9,709
#9,709
GAVol said:
There's not a lot to tell. Basically, he was riding around ATL with a writer from SI that was doing a piece on him. Rocker put on a show trying to be cool and buddy up with the guy and it never dawned on him that the guy 1) Wasn't there to buddy up and be impressed and 2) anything he said was fair game to end up in Sports Illustrated.

For Rocker's sake, I wish the Braves had sent a PR guy with them on that car ride, but like I said, it was a meathead being a meathead and let's just say that Rocker got big and became prone to outbursts around the same time . . . if you know what I mean.
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Gotcha.

And not surprising.
 
#9,710
#9,710
Vercingetorix said:
I've cauterized that part of my brain with enough alcohol over the years that it barely hurts above a low throb anymore.
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I am proud of you Vercy. You didn't even need a pyschatrist!!!!

Here's the thing though. I don't want to imagine 1991. Game 3, 2010 NLDS was tough. Then times that by 50? *shudders
 
#9,711
#9,711
zjcvols said:
I am proud of you Vercy. You didn't even need a pyschatrist!!!!

Here's the thing though. I don't want to imagine 1991. Game 3, 2010 NLDS was tough. Then times that by 50? *shudders
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Try times 500.

I was at Game 5 of the 91 WS for a blowout to go up 3-2 which was the most euphoric moment I had ever seen in ATL up to that point. Then God saw fit to pay us all back in the next two games.
 
#9,712
#9,712
zjcvols said:
Maybe, I'm naive, but Rocker also made comments against blacks...and well, Atlanta is known for its black population...
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The baseball-ticket-buying demographic is considerably different from the general population of the city of Atlanta.

The support he received was appalling. It wasn't even a reluctant "well, the guy is clearly detestable, but why should we dump our great closer over it?" sort of support; there were a ton of fans who actively cheered for the guy. It was not a proud moment in Braves history.
 
#9,713
#9,713
GAVol said:
Try times 500.

I was at Game 5 of the 91 WS for a blowout to go up 3-2 which was the most euphoric moment I had ever seen in ATL up to that point. Then God saw fit to pay us all back in the next two games.
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It hurts to watch that series. Yet I wasn't even born yet.
 
#9,714
#9,714
Vercingetorix said:
The baseball-ticket-buying demographic is considerably different from the general population of the city of Atlanta.

The support he received was appalling. It wasn't even a reluctant "well, the guy is clearly detestable, but why should we dump our great closer over it?" sort of support; there were a ton of fans who actively cheered for the guy. It was not a proud moment in Braves history.
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There are still people in Macon with neck pain from shaking their heads so much. We had just elected our first black Mayor when the article came out and he and Rocker attached themselves to each other - Rocker so he could say he had a black friend and the Mayor so he could leech some publicity out of the ordeal.
 
#9,715
#9,715
zjcvols said:
I am proud of you Vercy. You didn't even need a pyschatrist!!!!

Here's the thing though. I don't want to imagine 1991. Game 3, 2010 NLDS was tough. Then times that by 50? *shudders
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That's not even in the top 10. Maybe top 20. I had to think for a second to remember the details.

Games 6 and 7 of the 1991 series. Game 4 of the 1996 series. The Livan Hernandez game. The endless extra inning game in Houston in 2005 (?). There's five off the top of my head and I haven't even thought about it yet.
 
#9,716
#9,716
Vercingetorix said:
That's not even in the top 10. Maybe top 20. I had to think for a second to remember the details.

Games 6 and 7 of the 1991 series. Game 4 of the 1996 series. The Livan Hernandez game. The endless extra inning game in Houston in 2005 (?). There's five off the top of my head and I haven't even thought about it yet.
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My dad (who likes the Braves, but is a Tigers fan) called that the end of the dynasty even before the dynasty ended. You could just feel Atlanta never winning it again.
 
#9,717
#9,717
Vercingetorix said:
That's not even in the top 10. Maybe top 20. I had to think for a second to remember the details.

Games 6 and 7 of the 1991 series. Game 4 of the 1996 series. The Livan Hernandez game. The endless extra inning game in Houston in 2005 (?). There's five off the top of my head and I haven't even thought about it yet.
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For me, though, as someone who remembers a little of the 2005 NLDS, that was about as tough a sporting event for me as I can remember.

WHY DID BOBBY TAKE KIMBREL OUT!?!?!?! WHY!?!?!?!?!?!?!
 
#9,718
#9,718
Vercingetorix said:
That's not even in the top 10. Maybe top 20. I had to think for a second to remember the details.

Games 6 and 7 of the 1991 series. Game 4 of the 1996 series. The Livan Hernandez game. The endless extra inning game in Houston in 2005 (?). There's five off the top of my head and I haven't even thought about it yet.
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I might even throw in the final game of the 2010 NLDS with Kimbrel blowing the save and ending Bobby Cox's career after they rallied in the 9th to take the lead.
 
#9,719
#9,719
zjcvols said:
It hurts to watch that series. Yet I wasn't even born yet.
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I have never watched any replay of any of it. Ever. I've heard audio of Jack Buck's "We'll see you tomorrow night!" a thousand times, of course, but I've been able to avoid seeing any of it since it happened. It's the worst. The only thing in my sports-watching life remotely comparable is that SECCG choke job against LSU, and even that doesn't get there.
 
#9,720
#9,720
zjcvols said:
My dad (who likes the Braves, but is a Tigers fan) called that the end of the dynasty even before the dynasty ended. You could just feel Atlanta never winning it again.
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Eh, they won 100 games five more times after that. They were good enough to win it. The postseason is a crapshoot. The very next year, they lost in the playoffs to the Marlins, who finished 9 or 10 games behind them in the standings, and who went on to win the series. There were some tanglible reasons why the Braves didn't win as much in the playoffs as they could have been expected to, but was mostly just random action.
 
#9,721
#9,721
GAVol said:
I might even throw in the final game of the 2010 NLDS with Kimbrel blowing the save and ending Bobby Cox's career after they rallied in the 9th to take the lead.
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That was Game 3 actually. Game 4 the Braves lost 3-2 after Moylan allowed a two run single.

Game 3 made me mad. Kimbrel got two outs. He had Freddy Sanchez up, who spoiled a 3-2 pitch and hit a bloop single. Put runners on first and second. Then instead of leaving Kimbrel in, he brought in Mike Dunn against Aubrey Huff, lefty vs. lefty even though Kimbrel was (and is) the better pitcher and the fact that Huff is almost as productive against lefties and in 2010 hit lefties better than righties.
 
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#9,722
#9,722
Vercingetorix said:
Eh, they won 100 games five more times after that. They were good enough to win it. The postseason is a crapshoot. The very next year, they lost in the playoffs to the Marlins, who finished 9 or 10 games behind them in the standings, and who went on to win the series. There were some tanglible reasons why the Braves didn't win as much in the playoffs as they could have been expected to, but was mostly just random action.
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I've always heard A) Questionable managing B) Shaky bullpen C) The lineup just never hit well
 
#9,723
#9,723
zjcvols said:
I've always heard A) Questionable managing B) Shaky bullpen C) The lineup just never hit well
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10 percent questionable management
30 percent overinvesting in starting pitching, to the detriment of the rest of the team (lineup, bullpen, bench)
60 percent bad luck
 
#9,725
#9,725
Then add back in the good luck of actually winning in 1995 against a Cleveland team that was probably better than the Braves. They could very easily have lost that series too, in which case they'd be remembered as the biggest playoff chokers of all time.
 
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