Aviation Discussion

#776
#776
@ATC_VOL

I’m interested to hear your facility’s approach on PIREPs. Is management pushing it pretty hard after the turbulence events in ZLA and ZTL?

There’s heavy pushback from our controllers because of how the OM/OS team approached it initially. I really think they need to workshop ways to make it easier to input or provide some extra incentive for doing it since it being a basic job duty doesn’t seem to be enough.

I’ve really tried making it as easy as possible in the area and I still get a hard time. I personally put them in/given them the why on what it means for pilots. How they can see the PIREPs on flight planning apps and choose altitude accordingly to miss turb or icing.
 
#777
#777
Tri-CitiesVol said:
@ATC_VOL

I’m interested to hear your facility’s approach on PIREPs. Is management pushing it pretty hard after the turbulence events in ZLA and ZTL?

There’s heavy pushback from our controllers because of how the OM/OS team approached it initially. I really think they need to workshop ways to make it easier to input or provide some extra incentive for doing it since it being a basic job duty doesn’t seem to be enough.

I’ve really tried making it as easy as possible in the area and I still get a hard time. I personally put them in/given them the why on what it means for pilots. How they can see the PIREPs on flight planning apps and choose altitude accordingly to miss turb or icing.
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Seems like a fair approach to take. They push it pretty good here too, we had a turbulence event that made the news not too long ago. The only real annoying ones are when it’s 10 and clear and they want an hourly pirep to enter.
 
#779
#779
From the other side of the radio... Our meteorology department is really really good. They plan a lot of our domestic routing to avoid mountain waves and of course current and forecast turbulence areas. Our weather viewer app updates that constantly when we have Wifi (ironically when over the ocean on some of our airplanes we do not have it until the satellites are in place to support the system we have.

What I am not sure about in your conversation is the requirement for PIREPS. (to enter??) What can we do to help you out in that regard? When oceanic, we send one every hour or 10 degrees of longitude, but that goes to company. Domestically, is there something you need from us that you aren't getting?

And a shout out to the ATL approach controllers. Ya'll are second to none. I still smile after all these years when you give us a reduction from 300 knots to 210 at exactly the right spot so that I don't have to use speed brakes or any drag. All we have to do is dial the speed back and when we hit the next fix we are balls on the speed you wanted. I know that's what ya'll are doing, and it is very impressive imho. It really is a pleasure working with you (except when you give me RWY 10/28.)

I do miss Buzz though. "Have a good dayyyyy gentlemen"
 
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#783
#783
YankeeVol said:
How does a Army helicopter collid with a commercial flight in 2025?

ATC’s fault?

Pilot error?
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Hearing ATC told the Army helo to maintain visual separation from the American RJ (PSA). ATC then told army helo to pass BEHIND the RJ. Unless more information comes out to the contrary, sounds like pilot error on the the part of the army helo. You just can’t make that mistake, especially in that airspace around DCA. Terrible event. Avoidable.
 
#784
#784
Vol737 said:
Hearing ATC told the Army helo to maintain visual separation from the American RJ (PSA). ATC then told army helo to pass BEHIND the RJ. Unless more information comes out to the contrary, sounds like pilot error on the the part of the army helo. You just can’t make that mistake, especially in that airspace around DCA. Terrible event. Avoidable.
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Pilot error even if there were 2 commuter jets departing and arriving at the same time?
 
#787
#787
This was a Black Hawk?

Survival time in water that cold after a traumatic crash would be very short.

Tragic, incredibly sad, seemingly very avoidable and inexcusable, even suspicious.
 
#790
#790
64 on plane. 3 on Blackhawk. It was a training flight.

18 “bodies” pulled from the Potomac.

Collision reported to be at 400’. Also reported that helicopter hit the rear part to the arriving jet but the guy on Fox questions collision either the rear as the jet w/b traveling much faster.

ATC had the plane change their runway (to 33 from 1) and told Blackhawk to follow them. But there was another commuter departing at the same time.
 
#793
#793
Thunder Good-Oil said:
Pilot error even if there were 2 commuter jets departing and arriving at the same time?
Click to expand...
Yes, pilot error on the part of the army helo is my guess. He was given instructions to pass behind the RJ. From what I’ve seen, the RJ was lined up on final for runway 33 at DCA. How the army helo ended up in the approach path of the CRJ on final tells me he either lost sight of the CRJ or did not understand ATC instructions. DCA is a busy place. Lack of real estate and lack of airspace (a lot of restricted airspace around it). They are constantly landing airplanes (with more lined up on final) and immediately lining up departures on the runway seconds apart. A lot of times they are down to just one runway with an airplane landing as soon as a departing aircraft gets wheels off the ground.
This picture from ADS-B tracker was posted on one of our pilot pages.

IMG_4990.jpeg
 
Last edited:
#797
#797
Thunder Good-Oil said:
Pilot error even if there were 2 commuter jets departing and arriving at the same time?
Click to expand...
Take a look at any major airport at various parts of the day and you will see a lot more planes departing and arriving within seconds/minutes of each other sometimes on multiple runways than were at DCA last night. Just look at ATL if you want to see some fascinating multiple runway approaches and departures especially around their rush hours which occur several times a day. There is a replay feature in many of the flight trackers out there that let you replay the flights around airports, and it is awesome for an aviation geek.

I does sound like pilot error since he called the aircraft in sight, accepted visual, and then ran into it.
 
#798
#798
SpaceCoastVol said:
From the other side of the radio... Our meteorology department is really really good. They plan a lot of our domestic routing to avoid mountain waves and of course current and forecast turbulence areas. Our weather viewer app updates that constantly when we have Wifi (ironically when over the ocean on some of our airplanes we do not have it until the satellites are in place to support the system we have.

What I am not sure about in your conversation is the requirement for PIREPS. (to enter??) What can we do to help you out in that regard? When oceanic, we send one every hour or 10 degrees of longitude, but that goes to company. Domestically, is there something you need from us that you aren't getting?

And a shout out to the ATL approach controllers. Ya'll are second to none. I still smile after all these years when you give us a reduction from 300 knots to 210 at exactly the right spot so that I don't have to use speed brakes or any drag. All we have to do is dial the speed back and when we hit the next fix we are balls on the speed you wanted. I know that's what ya'll are doing, and it is very impressive imho. It really is a pleasure working with you (except when you give me RWY 10/28.)

I do miss Buzz though. "Have a good dayyyyy gentlemen"
Click to expand...
Have to enter PIREPS for moderate or greater turbulence (chop used to not count but does now for my facility at least) and icing of a light intensity or greater (we have to locally report trace as well due to T-38’s). Those are the two I generally care about the most and want to warn pilots about in the enroute environment. Then there’s all of the visibility/ceiling requirements, etc.

The supervisors are required to get reports every hour if certain conditions are forecasted even if it’s 10 and clear. I don’t think there’s anything on your end that needs to be done, just keep passing useful information so the next aircraft are aware.

My old trainer works at Atlanta approach now. I’m sure he’s not the one issuing perfectly timed speed reductions.
 
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