Basketball attendance down

#26
#26
germanicus said:
I understand the sentiment, but any business which accepts the premise that it's customers are the problem is in trouble.

People can drag down Tennessee basketball fans all they want for not appreciating this coach or that coach or for being needing to be "sold", but two guys have proven that there is a way to get them excited. May be just a coincidence they used almost exactly the same blueprint.

Building on the original post, basketball attendance has been in a steady decline and down almost 5,000 per game since 2010. If the average concessions spending is $10, that's nearly $800,000 in foregone revenue.
Click to expand...

5k per game? I find that hard to believe. I guess you are comparing attendance for this years terrible OOC home schedule vs entire past seasons.

Attendance has been dipping, which is to be expected when you are comparing a year coming off the programs best finish ever to a year where we've went 2 years without a bid. Not to mention you are comparing 1/2 a season vs a whole.
 
#27
#27
BigZiti09 said:
5k per game? I find that hard to believe. I guess you are comparing attendance for this years terrible OOC home schedule vs entire past seasons.

Attendance has been dipping, which is to be expected when you are comparing a year coming off the programs best finish ever to a year where we've went 2 years without a bid. Not to mention you are comparing 1/2 a season vs a whole.
Click to expand...

Here are the numbers, and yes - that is comparing whole seasons to the pre-season. Still, there's a lot of ground to be made up in the SEC season to get back to even last year's whole season numbers. If you just do whole season to whole season, you're down 3,000 per game from the previous - 2007-2010 levels. Still a lot of popcorn money.

Year - Average attendance

2006 - 17,954
2007 - 19,661
2008 - 20,267
2009 - 20,483
2010 - 19,168
2011 - 18,952
2012 - 16,543
2013 - 16,635
2014 - Average from reports on box scores - 14,776 through seven home games. Through the same point in the 2013 pre-season, the average was 16,503.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 2 people
#28
#28
germanicus said:
Here are the numbers, and yes - that is comparing whole seasons to the pre-season. Still, there's a lot of ground to be made up in the SEC season to get back to even last year's whole season numbers. If you just do whole season to whole season, you're down 3,000 per game from the previous - 2007-2010 levels. Still a lot of popcorn money.

Year - Average attendance

2006 - 17,954
2007 - 19,661
2008 - 20,267
2009 - 20,483
2010 - 19,168
2011 - 18,952
2012 - 16,543
2013 - 16,635
2014 - Average from reports on box scores - 14,776 through seven home games. Through the same point in the 2013 pre-season, the average was 16,503.
Click to expand...

I don't deny attendance is down a little. Couple factors involved in that.
1. Martin hasn't been to NCAA
2. This years home schedule sucks
3. A lot of season ticket holders left with Pearl.

I disagree with you saying it is down 5k. That's misleading. I also think we downsized the arena since that point.
 
#29
#29
BigZiti09 said:
I don't deny attendance is down a little. Couple factors involved in that.
1. Martin hasn't been to NCAA
2. This years home schedule sucks
3. A lot of season ticket holders left with Pearl.

I disagree with you saying it is down 5k. That's misleading. I also think we downsized the arena since that point.
Click to expand...

There'll be apples to apples numbers at the end of the season, but that 5K number does take into account a deficit of 2K per game when comparing the first seven games of the pre-conference schedule to last year's pre-conference schedule. That doesn't include Tusculum, as I didn't think it was fair to add that in.

As for downsizing the arena, I wasn't aware of changes there.Tennessee still lists capacity as 21,678.
 
#31
#31
If you guys haven't noticed, attendance is down in everything. Bowl game actual attendance was down this year, and BCS Championship tickets are the cheapest they've ever been. 3 NFL teams almost had their games blacked out this weekend and those are playoff games.

In the SEC, you should have seen some of the pictures on Twitter for Vandy and Auburn home games this weekend. Both hardly had anyone there at all.

We could be undefeated right now and I could almost guarantee you attendance would still be down due to the home schedule being very crappy this year. There's not a whole lot you can do about that.
 
#32
#32
germanicus said:
Here are the numbers, and yes - that is comparing whole seasons to the pre-season. Still, there's a lot of ground to be made up in the SEC season to get back to even last year's whole season numbers. If you just do whole season to whole season, you're down 3,000 per game from the previous - 2007-2010 levels. Still a lot of popcorn money.

Year - Average attendance

2006 - 17,954
2007 - 19,661
2008 - 20,267
2009 - 20,483
2010 - 19,168
2011 - 18,952
2012 - 16,543
2013 - 16,635
2014 - Average from reports on box scores - 14,776 through seven home games. Through the same point in the 2013 pre-season, the average was 16,503.
Click to expand...

Thats a scary trend. Good info.
 
#33
#33
Don't get me wrong, if it keeps dropping and Martin doesn't get it done, he's gone. But I'm saying even if Pearl were here, while it might be better, I still think TBA would have plenty of empty seats.
 
#34
#34
VolsSportsFan said:
Don't get me wrong, if it keeps dropping and Martin doesn't get it done, he's gone. But I'm saying even if Pearl were here, while it might be better, I still think TBA would have plenty of empty seats.
Click to expand...

There were empty seats to 90% of the games when he was here. TBA will never be a complete sellout.
 
#35
#35
johnnybravo said:
There were empty seats to 90% of the games when he was here. TBA will never be a complete sellout.
Click to expand...

Why I've been a big supporter of downsizing for a long time now.

Even at our peak we couldn't sell the joint out....downsize to around 16k, that's plenty big IMO.
 
#36
#36
bleedingTNorange said:
Why I've been a big supporter of downsizing for a long time now.

Even at our peak we couldn't sell the joint out....downsize to around 16k, that's plenty big IMO.
Click to expand...

That was the same argument while Buzz was here. If you downsize to 16K, when you've shown you can sell 20K with the right product, you are foregoing at least $700K/$800K of revenue on an annual basis. 16k may look aesthetically pleasing, but that extra 700k/800k funds a lot of athletics department activity.

To me, the attendance thread points out that Tennessee could have afforded to make offers to $2 million coaches, rather than try to go cheap with $1.2 million coaches.

The foregone revenue would easily have made up the difference.
 
#37
#37
VolsSportsFan said:
If you guys haven't noticed, attendance is down in everything. Bowl game actual attendance was down this year, and BCS Championship tickets are the cheapest they've ever been. 3 NFL teams almost had their games blacked out this weekend and those are playoff games.

In the SEC, you should have seen some of the pictures on Twitter for Vandy and Auburn home games this weekend. Both hardly had anyone there at all.

We could be undefeated right now and I could almost guarantee you attendance would still be down due to the home schedule being very crappy this year. There's not a whole lot you can do about that.
Click to expand...

good point....all the games on tv with nice flat screens and the cost keeps alot of people at home.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 person
#38
#38
Here is a few ideas. We could bring in a huge black curtain and make the arena look smaller and more crowded. Now their is a million dollar idea. Or....

taco give away night.
Ladies drink for free night.
Bring your step-son's girlfriend night.
and for the loooong time donors who keep us from having a decent student section, a Alex Trebek tribut night.

GBO
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 person
#39
#39
germanicus said:
That was the same argument while Buzz was here. If you downsize to 16K, when you've shown you can sell 20K with the right product, you are foregoing at least $700K/$800K of revenue on an annual basis. 16k may look aesthetically pleasing, but that extra 700k/800k funds a lot of athletics department activity.

To me, the attendance thread points out that Tennessee could have afforded to make offers to $2 million coaches, rather than try to go cheap with $1.2 million coaches.

The foregone revenue would easily have made up the difference.
Click to expand...

Except as pointed out, Pearl didn't even sell the joint out consistently.

Florida's basketball success has more than trumped ours and they can barely sell out a 12K arena. We do better than that and did under Pearl, but no way do we ever consistently sell out a 20K place.
 
#40
#40
germanicus said:
That was the same argument while Buzz was here. If you downsize to 16K, when you've shown you can sell 20K with the right product, you are foregoing at least $700K/$800K of revenue on an annual basis. 16k may look aesthetically pleasing, but that extra 700k/800k funds a lot of athletics department activity.

To me, the attendance thread points out that Tennessee could have afforded to make offers to $2 million coaches, rather than try to go cheap with $1.2 million coaches.

The foregone revenue would easily have made up the difference.
Click to expand...

The numbers went down pearls last couple years right?

We were still a top 20 program, but attendance was still dropping, down around 18k when he left I believe.

Maybe 16 was a bit small, but nearly 22 is way too big IMO. Duke sits under 10k, but they seem to be doing ok financially, same for UF.
 
#41
#41
VolsSportsFan said:
Except as pointed out, Pearl didn't even sell the joint out consistently.

Florida's basketball success has more than trumped ours and they can barely sell out a 12K arena. We do better than that and did under Pearl, but no way do we ever consistently sell out a 20K place.
Click to expand...

The point isn't whether you can sell our or not. The point is you can sell 19K-20K basketball tickets in Knoxville with the right product. Maybe you can get by with 12k or 16K, but why do that when you can sell 19K or 20K?

Averaged 19,406 under Pearl, but the only two years under 19 were his first year - when fans were still recovering from Buzz - and the last year - when he missed half the SEC season with the suspension.

Average under CCM in two full seasons 16,544. That's nearly 3,000/game, no matter how you slice it. And the trend line is down even more this year.
 
#42
#42
germanicus said:
The point isn't whether you can sell our or not. The point is you can sell 19K-20K basketball tickets in Knoxville with the right product. Maybe you can get by with 12k or 16K, but why do that when you can sell 19K or 20K?

Averaged 19,406 under Pearl, but the only two years under 19 were his first year - when fans were still recovering from Buzz - and the last year - when he missed half the SEC season with the suspension.

Average under CCM in two full seasons 16,544. That's nearly 3,000/game, no matter how you slice it. And the trend line is down even more this year.
Click to expand...

What do you see being more likely....

Tennessee hiring a guy who make us a top 15 program annually, or Tennessee hiring a guy who has us as a fringe tourney team typically?

My point being, the best time in UT history, the most excitement around the program, and we still were around 19k. I doubt Pearl would've kept us at that level each year, but probably close. Ticket sales dropped his final 2 years, so no reason to think they wouldn't have dropped slightly again.
 
#43
#43
bleedingTNorange said:
What do you see being more likely....

Tennessee hiring a guy who make us a top 15 program annually, or Tennessee hiring a guy who has us as a fringe tourney team typically?
Click to expand...

You may be right, but if you keep hiring fringe tourney guys, attendance will bleed away even more. It will not grow. Maybe it spurts in good years, but the average trend would be down, until you hit the 12K or so level. People don't get excited by fringe tourney teams.
 
#44
#44
germanicus said:
You may be right, but if you keep hiring fringe tourney guys, attendance will bleed away even more. It will not grow. Maybe it spurts in good years, but the average trend would be down, until you hit the 12K or so level. People don't get excited by fringe tourney teams.
Click to expand...

That's my point, if those are the people we are gonna hire, wouldn't it make more sense to downsize the arena?

If hart has plans to go hire Phil Jackson then maybe we will sell 20k tickets, but I don't see that commitment to basketball being made.
 
#47
#47
bleedingTNorange said:
That's my point, if those are the people we are gonna hire, wouldn't it make more sense to downsize the arena?
Click to expand...

That would be the single most depressing thought in my nearly 50 years of following Tennessee basketball. Ever since Mears arrived, this has been an aspirational program. DeVoe was hired because he was a hot coach who John Wooden recommended to Bob Woodruff. Wade was hired, not because it was easy, but because a lot of people thought breaking the AA coach barrier with a guy who was Denny Crum's right hand man would unleash the potential that was Tennessee basketball. KO was hired because he was a guy who could push us into the top. Green was a mystery hire, but the AD settled after aiming higher in the process. He still took the program to four straight NCAAs. Buzz was - mistakenly - a hot coach with an UNC pedigree whose aim was to capture that magic here. Pearl was an evangelist who'd won championships wherever he'd been.

If the powers that be really have no more aspirations than "fringe", the program will be UGA or Ole Miss within 5 years.

At that point, a 12K arena will be too big.
 
#48
#48
germanicus said:
You may be right, but if you keep hiring fringe tourney guys, attendance will bleed away even more. It will not grow. Maybe it spurts in good years, but the average trend would be down, until you hit the 12K or so level. People don't get excited by fringe tourney teams.
Click to expand...

If we are settling with being a fringe tournament team.....who cares how big the stadium is? Thats the worst argument I have heard yet
 
#49
#49
When you go out and hire a coach who deserves to be paid 11th in the conference what is it you're saying?

Bucth was much of the same? We went the cheap route, going the cheap route rarely leads to huge amounts of success.
 
#50
#50
bleedingTNorange said:
When you go out and hire a coach who deserves to be paid 11th in the conference what is it you're saying?

Bucth was much of the same? We went the cheap route, going the cheap route rarely leads to huge amounts of success.
Click to expand...

What does what our university pay or who they hire have to do with my expectations as a fan. Butch and Zo are both bonafide NCAA coaches and both should carry the same expectations. I dont lower my expectations just bc of what one of our coaches makes.
 
New posts
You must log in or register to reply here.

VN Store



Back
Top