Berman, US Attorney for SDNY, forced out

#101
#101
NorthDallas40 said:
Sessions was wrong to not withdraw once he saw this all coming. And Trump was wrong to not kick him to to curb and not appoint him.

It never should have made it to recuse.
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I agree. But I think Trump kept him on because he thought Sessions wouldn't recuse himself and would get the inquiry shut down with no questions asked.
 
#103
#103
NCFisher said:
It's nice having an adult as AG for the first time in about a decade.
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It's nice for unconditional Trump supporters who are defining "an adult" as being someone who is willing to serve as the President's personal defense attorney, even though that is not a part of the official capacity of their office. That is, an Attorney General who is willing to obstruct investigations of the President and his associates, use the power of their office to thwart active prosecutions of the President and his associates, undermine resolved criminal cases, seek vindictive prosecutions of the President's political enemies and also perform public relations work for the President on Fox News.

... and then we have this:

1) Per The Hill from yesterday morning, according to Attorney General William Barr, President Donald Trump officially fired Southern District of New York Prosecutor, Geoffrey Berman, on Friday night. Berman had led multiple investigations into Trump associates, including Michael Cohen and Rudy Giuliani.

2) Per CNN from yesterday afternoon, President Donald Trump said, "I'm not involved," when he was asked about the firing of Southern District of New York Prosecutor, Geoffrey Berman.

Also, in a surprise move of integrity, Sen. Lindsey Graham has said that he won't take up the U.S. Attorney pick to replace Berman without both Senators from New York, Democrats Chuck Schumer and Kirsten Gillibrand signing off on the permanent replacement. So, Barr may think he has accomplished something greater than what will prove to be the reality here.
 
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#104
#104
BowlBrother85 said:
It's nice for unconditional Trump supporters who are defining "an adult" as being someone who is willing to serve as the President's personal defense attorney, even though that is not a part of the official capacity of their office. That is, an Attorney General who is willing to obstruct investigations of the President and his associates, use the power of their office to thwart active prosecutions of the President and his associates, undermine resolved criminal cases, seek vindictive prosecutions of the President's political enemies and also perform public relations work for the President on Fox News.

... and then we have this:

1) Per The Hill from yesterday morning, according to Attorney General William Barr, President Donald Trump officially fired Southern District of New York Prosecutor, Geoffrey Berman, on Friday night. Berman had led multiple investigations into Trump associates, including Michael Cohen and Rudy Giuliani.

2) Per CNN from yesterday afternoon, President Donald Trump said, "I'm not involved," when he was asked about the firing of Southern District of New York Prosecutor, Geoffrey Berman.
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This has been covered but due to your slowness it’s understandable that you don’t get it. This narrative is BS. Trump can easily direct Berman’s firing while not actually being involved with it and directing Barr to handle it. Berman works for Barr after all. Both of your statements are true you’re pushing a false dichotomy
 
#105
#105
NorthDallas40 said:
This has been covered but due to your slowness it’s understandable that you don’t get it. This narrative is BS. Trump can easily direct Berman’s firing while not actually being involved with it and directing Barr to handle it. Berman works for Barr after all. Both of your statements are true you’re pushing a false dichotomy
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This whole thing is insignificant now anyway with Audrey Strauss as the temporary replacement. Sen. Lindsey Graham has said that both New York Senators (Schumer and Gillibrand) will have to approve of Geoffrey Berman's permanent replacement before the Senate takes it up... as they should. In other words, it will not be Jay Clayton, as Trump and Barr wanted. As long as that is what actually happens, I don't care about this anymore.
 
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#106
#106
BowlBrother85 said:
This whole thing is insignificant now anyway with Audrey Strauss as the temporary replacement. Sen. Lindsey Graham has said that both New York Senators (Schumer and Gillibrand) will have to approve of Geoffrey Berman's permanent replacement before the Senate takes it up... as they should. In other words, it will not be Jay Clayton, as Trump and Barr wanted. As long as that is what actually happens, I don't care about this anymore.
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Wow that’s awfully convenient for you then. Kinda makes me wonder why you bothered with the other post then 😂
 
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#107
#107
NorthDallas40 said:
Wow that’s awfully convenient for you then. Kinda makes me wonder why you bothered with the other post then 😂
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By trying to plant Jay Clayton into Berman's office, it's pretty clear that Barr wanted to obstruct an investigation. Now that the temporary replacement is Audrey Strauss, and Chuck Schumer and Kirsten Gillibrand have to sign off on the permanent replacement? This is no longer a big deal. You are essentially replacing one liberal bulldog prosecutor with another. Congrats.
 
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#108
#108
BowlBrother85 said:
By trying to plant Jay Clayton into Berman's office, it's pretty clear that Barr wanted to obstruct an investigation. Now that the temporary replacement is Audrey Strauss, and Chuck Schumer and Kirsten Gillibrand have to sign off on the permanent replacement? This is no longer a big deal. You are essentially replacing one liberal bulldog prosecutor with another. Congrats.
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Isn’t this appointment supposed to be apolitical? 🤔
 
#111
#111
NorthDallas40 said:
It’s a political appointment and thus any removal would be a political firing wouldn’t it?

And it would appear Berman finally realized that Barr had the ability to do what he did and made a weak face saving concession to let him slink off out the back door.
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This situation is a bit different than most. Where it gets tricky is that Berman wasn't appointed by the President and confirmed by the Senate. Which is how the system is designed to work.

Berman was appointed by the AG on a temporary basis and confirmed by federal judges (which is legal in certain situations). And the AG can only appoint a replacement when the position is vacant. If Berman doesn't vacate Barr can't replace him. Then on top of that, Berman is technically, not a Trump appointee.

The president holds the sole power to terminate Berman, not the AG. So the president has to do it himself, not direct the AG to do it.
 
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#112
#112
GoDucks349 said:
This situation is a bit different than most. Where it gets tricky is that Berman wasn't appointed by the President and confirmed by the Senate. Which is how the system is designed to work.

Berman was appointed by the AG on a temporary basis and confirmed by federal judges (which is legal in certain situations). And the AG can only appoint a replacement when the position is vacant. If Berman doesn't vacate Barr can't replace him. Then on top of that, Berman is technically, not a Trump appointee.

These issues could cause a problems such as can Trump actually fire him since he didn't hire him?
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Nope. They are political appointees and serve at the pleasure of the president. If they feel their firing was wrong there is a remedy process for federal employees
 
#113
#113
NorthDallas40 said:
Nope. They are political appointees and serve at the pleasure of the president. If they feel their firing was wrong there is a remedy process for federal employees
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You are wrong on this. Check it out. I have edited my post a bit so go back and take a look. The president is the only one that can fire him, not the AG
 
#114
#114
davethevol said:
If someone has been told they are fired and that person refuses to recognize they’ve been relieved of their duties, then it sounds like the fired person might not be someone that has honor. Just another corrupt prosecutor.
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there's nothing to suggest Berman is corrupt. Now Trump, we've known he's corrupt since before he took office
 
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#115
#115
GoDucks349 said:
You are wrong on this. Check it out. I have edited my post a bit so go back and take a look. The president is the only one that can fire him, not the AG
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Oh I agree. But the president did fire him, he just didn’t hold an Apprentice type of event to do it. AG Barr is well within his purview to exercise that firing by the President.

and don’t come back with “he said he wasn’t involved” it’s been covered. Trump fires him, Barr walks him off the property. Trump doesn’t have to deal with the details. Next topic
 
#116
#116
NorthDallas40 said:
Oh I agree. But the president did fire him, he just didn’t hold an Apprentice type of event to do it. AG Barr is well within his purview to exercise that firing by the President.

and don’t come back with “he said he wasn’t involved” it’s been covered. Trump fires him, Barr walks him off the property. Trump doesn’t have to deal with the details. Next topic
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You are trying to split hairs. Trump said that he wasn't involved. Of course, he was involved. Being involved doesn't just include being the person who delivered the message to Berman.
 
#118
#118
USAFgolferVol said:
there's nothing to suggest Berman is corrupt. Now Trump, we've known he's corrupt since before he took office
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Actually some have known Trump was corrupt much longer than that. I was in the institutional money mgmt business before I retired and I remember one of our analysts who covered, property mgmt, REITS etc. saying in a meeting (in about 1999-2000) what every we do, we need to stay away from Trump, he's a crook. And that analyst is one very conservative guy.
 
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#119
#119
BowlBrother85 said:
It's nice for unconditional Trump supporters who are defining "an adult" as being someone who is willing to serve as the President's personal defense attorney, even though that is not a part of the official capacity of their office. That is, an Attorney General who is willing to obstruct investigations of the President and his associates, use the power of their office to thwart active prosecutions of the President and his associates, undermine resolved criminal cases, seek vindictive prosecutions of the President's political enemies and also perform public relations work for the President on Fox News.

... and then we have this:

1) Per The Hill from yesterday morning, according to Attorney General William Barr, President Donald Trump officially fired Southern District of New York Prosecutor, Geoffrey Berman, on Friday night. Berman had led multiple investigations into Trump associates, including Michael Cohen and Rudy Giuliani.

2) Per CNN from yesterday afternoon, President Donald Trump said, "I'm not involved," when he was asked about the firing of Southern District of New York Prosecutor, Geoffrey Berman.

Also, in a surprise move of integrity, Sen. Lindsey Graham has said that he won't take up the U.S. Attorney pick to replace Berman without both Senators from New York, Democrats Chuck Schumer and Kirsten Gillibrand signing off on the permanent replacement. So, Barr may think he has accomplished something greater than what will prove to be the reality here.
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That's a child's argument; whether you like it or not the U.S. AG has multiple duties. A couple of them are:
  • Furnish advice and opinions, formal and informal, on legal matters to the President and the Cabinet and to the heads of the executive departments and agencies of the government, as provided by law.
  • Make recommendations to the President concerning appointments to federal judicial positions and to positions within the Department, including U.S. Attorneys and U.S. Marshals.
    Organization, Mission & Functions Manual: Attorney General, Deputy and Associate
Barr released this statement in reply to Berman:
“Your statement also wrongly implies that your continued tenure in the office is necessary to ensure that cases now pending in the Southern District of New York are handled appropriately. This is obviously false. I fully expect that the office will continue to handle all cases in the normal course and pursuant to the Department’s applicable standards, policies, and guidance.”

It is your choice whether or not to hyperventilate over your imagined constitutional crises. Did your shortness of breath extend to Clinton ordering A.G. Reno to fire ALL 93 U.S. attorneys in one day on March 23, 1993? Eric Holder firing successive batches of U.S. Attorneys at Obama's directive because "elections have consequences"? Did you gasp when Holder declared himself Obama's "wingman"? I didn't think so.

It's typical for presidents to fire U.S. attorneys in their first term and hire their own; Trump should have done this when sworn in.
 
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#120
#120
GoDucks349 said:
I haven't read the entire thread, but I don't think Barr has the authority to fire Berman. And I think Trump hasn't put the firing in writing, so it's a bit of an impasse.

Plus, you might want to check out what Lindsay Graham has said on this subject. I think he said a replacement would have to be approved by both NY US Senators. And they are Democrats....

Also, doesn't this feel like an attempt at a political firing?
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Graham following traditional protocol has nothing to do with whether Barr can fire subordinates at Trump's directive.

I don't 'feel' when it comes to law and executive powers; I think. All U.S. attorneys are politically appointed, and are typically fired in a president's first term and new ones hired. Trump should have cleaned house; it's overdue.
 
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#121
#121
BowlBrother85 said:
By trying to plant Jay Clayton into Berman's office, it's pretty clear that Barr wanted to obstruct an investigation. Now that the temporary replacement is Audrey Strauss, and Chuck Schumer and Kirsten Gillibrand have to sign off on the permanent replacement? This is no longer a big deal. You are essentially replacing one liberal bulldog prosecutor with another. Congrats.
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Well, no; it isn't clear at all especially when there was no move to close investigations, just as firing FBI directors doesn't close FBI investigations.

IOW, you prematurely spoke out of reflex, not logical consideration.
 
#122
#122
GoDucks349 said:
You are wrong on this. Check it out. I have edited my post a bit so go back and take a look. The president is the only one that can fire him, not the AG
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After Berman made a spectacle of it, Barr advised Trump to fire him. He told Barr to do it. The end.
 
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#123
#123
NCFisher said:
After Berman made a spectacle of it, Barr advised Trump to fire him. He told Barr to do it. The end.
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Trump made a spectacle of the situation by announcing that Jay Clayton of the SEC would be nominated to replace Berman. Clayton is a Trump ally with no prior experience as a prosecutor. There is no way that the home state Senators (Schumer and Gillibrand) would approve of him. However, as previously pointed out, Sen. Lindsey Graham, Chairman of the Judiciary Committee, has said that he will follow precedent here, and he will not proceed with the nomination of a replacement for Berman unless the Senators from New York, Schumer and Gillibrand, have signed off on the nominee. That will never happen for Clayton. It's common knowledge that Berman was investigating Rudy Giuliani for his financial dealings involving the Ukraine. It should be apparent to all, that Trump wants that investigation stopped.
 
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#125
#125
Purple Tiger said:
Was it apolitical when Trump suggested a replacement who would quell investigations about him?
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Read Barr’s answer to that answer above with regards to pending cases and apply some more baby powder Cletus.

since you’re slow here I’ll spell it out for you.

Barr released this statement in reply to Berman:
“Your statement also wrongly implies that your continued tenure in the office is necessary to ensure that cases now pending in the Southern District of New York are handled appropriately. This is obviously false. I fully expect that the office will continue to handle all cases in the normal course and pursuant to the Department’s applicable standards, policies, and guidance.”
 
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