Bernie Sanders Thread

[OrangeWayOfLife]

Maybe, but I think part of that is the emphasis in schools on things that don't matter much.

Advanced math is useless for 95% of the population, but we teach it because of the 10 people in a class who want to be engineers.

We need to focus more on money management and personal finance.

You can teach it but it takes discipline to follow through. Discipline and responsibility are what's lacking

 

[Gramps]

Ceo pay should have a very low base and tied directly to either profits or a specific goal.

Excellent post Neo. I agree 100%

 

[BeecherVol]

I'm a 21 year old home owner that came from a home with two drug addicted parents (one is now dead) and have never been given anything in my life. A lot of the time we weren't even able to eat. Just because I'm an individual success story does not mean the system isn't rigged. Change needs to happen whether or not you or I got ahead. Just because it CAN be done doesn't mean it should be as hard as it is. That's the point.

I actually look at it the other way. You working your way up, (no different than many here, including me) shows that its not rigged.

I applaud you for taking a bad situation and working your way out of it. You have created a foundation for life that some will not have. I don't wish hard times on anybody (I grew up with my fair share) but having those is not a bad thing in the big picture either.

 

[BeecherVol]

Maybe, but I think part of that is the emphasis in schools on things that don't matter much.

Advanced math is useless for 95% of the population, but we teach it because of the 10 people in a class who want to be engineers.

We need to focus more on money management and personal finance.

Ive always said by the time a kid gets to the 11th grade they should starting having trade class options and apprenticeship opportunities more available. Not everybody is going to college, and if they do its not to be an engineer.

 

[Obsessed]

Excellent post Neo. I agree 100%

No offense gramps, but when you guys sit on the boards of these company's then you can make these decisions.

 

[BeecherVol]

You can teach it but it takes discipline to follow through. Discipline and responsibility are what's lacking

Personal responsibility is becoming taboo for to many. Some have it instilled at an early age and run away from it when its completely on them. Some of it is on a poor family structure but there comes a point where unless you are mentally incapable (which is rare and we take care of that) you don't have an excuse. Doesn't mean its gonna be easy, thats life.

 

[Kingston Vol]

Ive always said by the time a kid gets to the 11th grade they should starting having trade class options and apprenticeship opportunities more available. Not everybody is going to college, and if they do its not to be an engineer.

Yep. There needs to be more emphasis on mortgage/interest rates.

I've always thought it would be nice to start a savings/trading account for every student in 8th grade. Give them $10 (subsidize this for low income students) then let them watch it grow as they manage it over time.

A personal investment creates intrigue and interest in the process - which is what we need more of.

 

[Kingston Vol]

You can teach it but it takes discipline to follow through. Discipline and responsibility are what's lacking

I don't think that's the case - that's more a generational "this younger generation sucks" thinking.

I don't think the minds of the average person in America has changed or been transformed. We all want to make a good living for ourselves and our families. I just think the road to get there is more treacherous than it was, say, 20-25 years ago.

 

[BeecherVol]

I don't think that's the case - that's more a generational "this younger generation sucks" thinking.

I don't think the minds of the average person in America has changed or been transformed. We all want to make a good living for ourselves and our families. I just think the road to get there is more treacherous than it was, say, 20-25 years ago.

I don't think the idea of wanting a good living is really that different from this generation to previous ones. I do see a difference in how this generation views the process of how they get there. There are exceptions to every rule but on the general I think there is a big enough difference that it matters.

 

[Obsessed]

Yep. There needs to be more emphasis on mortgage/interest rates.

I've always thought it would be nice to start a savings/trading account for every student in 8th grade. Give them $10 (subsidize this for low income students) then let them watch it grow as they manage it over time.

A personal investment creates intrigue and interest in the process - which is what we need more of.

I think this is great idea.

My son is going in to 8th grade. He already manages own savings account. He saves his money and shops around when he wants to make a purchase on something.

Granted he has only saved over 400 bucks but he has earned it. Recycles cans, mows grandparents grass, etc.

 

[BeecherVol]

Yep. There needs to be more emphasis on mortgage/interest rates.

I've always thought it would be nice to start a savings/trading account for every student in 8th grade. Give them $10 (subsidize this for low income students) then let them watch it grow as they manage it over time.

A personal investment creates intrigue and interest in the process - which is what we need more of.

Those are solid ideas.
I was speaking on "trade" more along the lines of jobs that typically require less higher education and more hands on experience.

 

[OrangeWayOfLife]

I don't think that's the case - that's more a generational "this younger generation sucks" thinking.

I don't think the minds of the average person in America has changed or been transformed. We all want to make a good living for ourselves and our families. I just think the road to get there is more treacherous than it was, say, 20-25 years ago.

What makes you think it was easier then?

 

[Kingston Vol]

What makes you think it was easier then?

Access to higher education was easier. Little to no debt after said higher education. There were more labor jobs that could be had if you didn't want to go to college. There are more.

 

[Kingston Vol]

Those are solid ideas.
I was speaking on "trade" more along the lines of jobs that typically require less higher education and more hands on experience.

Oh, okay. Yeah, for sure.

 

[OrangeWayOfLife]

Access to higher education was easier. Little to no debt after said higher education. There were more labor jobs that could be had if you didn't want to go to college. There are more.

I didn't go to college so I don't really get on board with the belief you HAVE to go to college. The labor jobs, we have to bring our jobs back. need to make it profitable for American owners to do business in America. Trump has been on this since day one. Government intervention will only make things worse. If you want to see college rates drop. If people quit spending money on useless degrees (because they're forced to believe you HAVE to go to college) for several years and attendance starting dropping, the tuition would follow to try to get more enrollee's. Scholarships and grants have driven up the costs of the average joe.

 

[Gramps]

No, the consumer decides. Did you shop at Home Depot? Bet you did you hypocrite.

No, my IQ, every standardized test I ever took, and my success say so old man. Maybe your average run with small mediocre trucking companies makes you think somehow you have the right to call me this, when in reality, everything about me makes me better than you.

How many companies did you say you failed with? I have had no failures. I took people like you and showed you how to be better and more profitable. How many millions did you say you retired with? Oh, that's right you probably have less than 2 million net worth right? I've probably donated more money to many different charities and programs than you earned in your lifetime old man, who has done more for others?

How joyous is your old life spending a good amount of time on here, instead of out enjoying your retirement. Lonely?

I have earned the right to have a high opinion of myself because every accomplishment I have achieved says so. I have taken multiple struggling companies and turned them around, I have made many owners very wealthy, and I have done quite alright for myself. I can retire right now, at 38. How long did you toil and fail with your small companies? What was the largest revenue you created by yourself, with no employees? I have earned the right and if you want to get into a pissing contest old man we can.

I have seen some arrogant pricks come and go on VN but you win the gold metal.

Now I am going to wallow in my loneliness while Granny is out spending what few meager dollars I was able to salvage from all those failed businesses I owned and sold for a profit with the exception of that small mediocre trucking company you mentioned, FTR, I have only owned one trucking company . My other businesses were not in logistics . I have a gentleman managing it while negotiations are going on to sell it. Should be a done deal by the end of month. We need the cash. Granny is wanting a new pair of shoes.

I do not know nor do I care which one of us has the most money. Money does not make one person better than another. If you base the success of your life on the amount of cash you have, you are one sad pathetic man. Do you plan on being buried with your cash? When life it is all over, you are going to be cremated or rot in a grave just like the people you think you are better than. I feel sorry for people like you. Many of the people you look down your nose at may live very happy lives, happier than you do. Success is measured in different ways.

Granny and I live comfortably. We love each other, have our home decorated to her liking, few acres of land that I use to enjoy , several toys, successful children, grandchildren we love and spoiling, but most of all we have our salvation. That is more precious than have the 10 billion dollars Trump says he is worth. Maybe one day you will understand this paragraph. I certainly hope so.

:hi:

 

[Gramps]

No offense gramps, but when you guys sit on the boards of these company's then you can make these decisions.

None taken Ob. As always I respect your opinion.

 

[Obsessed]

None taken Ob. As always I respect your opinion.

I just hope it made sense. Lol

I don't want the public to decide my worth. As I'm sure you didn't want your neighbor deciding yours

Some of their bonuses are crazy though.

 

[tennvols77]

I have seen some arrogant pricks come and go on VN but you win the gold metal.

Now I am going to wallow in my loneliness while Granny is out spending what few meager dollars I was able to salvage from all those failed businesses I owned and sold for a profit with the exception of that small mediocre trucking company you mentioned, FTR, I have only owned one trucking company . My other businesses were not in logistics . I have a gentleman managing it while negotiations are going on to sell it. Should be a done deal by the end of month. We need the cash. Granny is wanting a new pair of shoes.

I do not know nor do I care which one of us has the most money. Money does not make one person better than another. If you base the success of your life on the amount of cash you have, you are one sad pathetic man. Do you plan on being buried with your cash? When life it is all over, you are going to be cremated or rot in a grave just like the people you think you are better than. I feel sorry for people like you. Many of the people you look down your nose at may live very happy lives, happier than you do. Success is measured in different ways.

Granny and I live comfortably. We love each other, have our home decorated to her liking, few acres of land that I use to enjoy , several toys, successful children, grandchildren we love and spoiling, but most of all we have our salvation. That is more precious than have the 10 billion dollars Trump says he is worth. Maybe one day you will understand this paragraph. I certainly hope so.

:hi:

Arrogant only for the response to you. You decided to comment on something that wasn't about you, then you hurl the insult to my response. My post above was in response to your insult.

I only was accentuating the fact that your insult didn't apply, and as my real world accomplishments proved contrary to your words.

Then with this above, your generalizations about me couldn't be further from the truth. I never mentioned anything about any other person, just in relation to you. I never said money was the end all be all, I just made sure that you understood that your insult didn't apply as my accomplishments outweighed your's as one sign of intelligence. Everything written pertained to you, no one else.

I never said one thing about looking down on anyone, other than you, because I wanted you to understand how wrong your insult was. I'm the nicest guy, but, when you want to attack me then we can compare achievement. That's all that was. Yet, here you go with another assumption and trying to tell me how sorry you feel for me when you are just inferring and generalizing me, where as I made it all about you from your posts that you willingly disclosed.

So, feel as you wish, Shriner's, Children Hospital, American Heart Association, Salvation Army, Boys Town, the SPCA, Big Brothers Big sisters and many others think I'm pretty awesome. I hope for nothing but good for you old man and think what you want.

 

[FLVOL_79]

 

[Gramps]

Arrogant only for the response to you. You decided to comment on something that wasn't about you, then you hurl the insult to my response. My post above was in response to your insult.

I only was accentuating the fact that your insult didn't apply, and as my real world accomplishments proved contrary to your words.

Then with this above, your generalizations about me couldn't be further from the truth. I never mentioned anything about any other person, just in relation to you. I never said money was the end all be all, I just made sure that you understood that your insult didn't apply as my accomplishments outweighed your's as one sign of intelligence. Everything written pertained to you, no one else.

I never said one thing about looking down on anyone, other than you, because I wanted you to understand how wrong your insult was. I'm the nicest guy, but, when you want to attack me then we can compare achievement. That's all that was. Yet, here you go with another assumption and trying to tell me how sorry you feel for me when you are just inferring and generalizing me, where as I made it all about you from your posts that you willingly disclosed.

So, feel as you wish, Shriner's, Children Hospital, American Heart Association, Salvation Army, Boys Town, the SPCA, Big Brothers Big sisters and many others think I'm pretty awesome. I hope for nothing but good for you old man and think what you want.

My daddy taught me many years ago to take what those say that continually bragg about how great they are as a grain of salt. I am going to follow his advise.

You have yourself a good day today and a better day tomorrow.

 

[volinbham]

Access to higher education was easier. Little to no debt after said higher education. There were more labor jobs that could be had if you didn't want to go to college. There are more.

I agree with the part on labor jobs.

However, while Higher Ed is more expensive (relatively speaking) than it used to be there are more options than ever and one can easily pursue college without massive debt if they do so wisely. Go to an in-state school and work while attending - maybe it takes an extra year but you can get out with little to no additional debt.

On the positive, the massive growth if IT in all it's forms has created opportunities that never before existed. A kid can use IT to run a business in any number of areas and easily reach customers.

Overall, I don't think the opportunities are fewer; they are just different.

People need to adapt - the college experience for example: just because one's folks basically took a hiatus from life for 4 years to go to an expensive school, live in an apartment near campus, party their butts off and not work doesn't mean that's how today's kids should experience college. If they can, more power to them but that model isn't the only (or the best) model for Higher Ed.

As was stated earlier in the thread - trade jobs are still available, high paying and highly respectable. We are doing kids a major disservice by not promoting these opportunities.

 

[FLVOL_79]

Access to higher education was easier. Little to no debt after said higher education. There were more labor jobs that could be had if you didn't want to go to college. There are more.

What? :blink: No. College was still expensive. Access to higher education NOW is easier than in the history of human kind. Any lowlife can get a pell grant or financial aid and literally any school will accept you especially if you are an "Adult Student" regardless of your past scholastic achievement, or more often than not lack there of. Hell academic standards have been constantly lowered over the past few decades to allow more people who should not be in higher education become enrolled. Think about that for a bit...standards have been lowered over and over and over. Why is that?

So financial aid and grants increased drastically over the last 20+ years. Schools saw the new goverment money and increased their catalog size. Increased catalog size led to many more worthless degrees that have zero value on the outside. Students often take grants and financial aid and..wait for this one!!...spend it on NON school related items because often times you are just given the money. When I went to school my grants were applied directly to my tuition. 10 years later I'm watching my brother go to UT and he has a brand new laptop and a big screen tv..paid for with his "financial aid".

My Dad went to Cornell..had to work 2 jobs while enrolled full time and eventually commissioned into the Army during Vietnam so he could pay off that school debt because it wasn't cheap or nonexistent.

So lunatic Bernie wants free college for all? Sure! Lets do it like the other socialist countries! 2 year college followed by compulsory 2 year military commitment in the infantry and only the infantry. Fail classes? Pay back tuition with interest :good!: Take entrance exam to determine which degree/career path the government wants you to go down.

Left wing jealousy and envy is utterly odious.

 

[1972 Grad]

What? :blink: No. College was still expensive. Access to higher education NOW is easier than in the history of human kind. Any lowlife can get a pell grant or financial aid and literally any school will accept you especially if you are an "Adult Student" regardless of your past scholastic achievement, or more often than not lack there of. Hell academic standards have been constantly lowered over the past few decades to allow more people who should not be in higher education become enrolled. Think about that for a bit...standards have been lowered over and over and over. Why is that?

So financial aid and grants increased drastically over the last 20+ years. Schools saw the new goverment money and increased their catalog size. Increased catalog size led to many more worthless degrees that have zero value on the outside. Students often take grants and financial aid and..wait for this one!!...spend it on NON school related items because often times you are just given the money. When I went to school my grants were applied directly to my tuition. 10 years later I'm watching my brother go to UT and he has a brand new laptop and a big screen tv..paid for with his "financial aid".

My Dad went to Cornell..had to work 2 jobs while enrolled full time and eventually commissioned into the Army during Vietnam so he could pay off that school debt because it wasn't cheap or nonexistent.

So lunatic Bernie wants free college for all? Sure! Lets do it like the other socialist countries! 2 year college followed by compulsory 2 year military commitment in the infantry and only the infantry. Fail classes? Pay back tuition with interest :good!: Take entrance exam to determine which degree/career path the government wants you to go down.

Left wing jealousy and envy is utterly odious.

Good post. Unfortunately true.

 

[MG1968]

Regarding Bernie's bullet point of "make joining a union easier". That's fine. Leaving a union should be a simple matter as well. You should also be allowed to opt out of joining a union, even in an at-will state and the right to specify that your union dues are not used for political purposes.

Union membership should be voluntary and public employee unions should be abolished.