Beverly Hills residents arming themselves with guns in wake of violence

#76
#76
Grand Vol said:
Almost none of it. See my MP5 comments.

I'm not opposed to a pistol caliber carbine as a HD weapon. But as stated, that 9mm round will overpenetrate. It's a weight and velocity thing. A normal FMJ .223 round going at anything above 2,400 FPS (I may be incorrect on that speed, might be a bit lower) will or should fragment. Same goes for a a lot of the lighter HP designs. Once you get into heavier bullets like 70 grain and above, you could see some overpenetration.

Long story short, a lighter bullet like a 55 or 62 grain dumps a lot of energy when it hits. That's why varmint rounds are so light and devastating to small critters. All that energy is dumped almost immediately. A pistol round, while going fast, still retains a lot of energy and will continue moving until that energy is spent. Even "fat and heavy" .45 ACP rounds take a lot to slow them down. HP designs help in this regard, but most homeowners will end up buying a pack of WWB FMJ loads and call it good.

A pistol caliber carbine is better than a shotgun and a shotgun is better than a pistol which are all better than a sharp stick, but not my first choice honestly.
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How about a 9MM or 0.40 loaded up with PD ammo like hydrashoks?
 
#79
#79
NorthDallas40 said:
How about a 9MM or 0.40 loaded up with PD ammo like hydrashoks?
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Hydrashocks are almost worthless these days. Look up the gel tests on them especially with denim. Basically, the cavity fills up and it acts no better than a FMJ. Little to no expansion.

Go modern with JHP ammo like a bonded JHP design.

Regardless, there is still the weight issue and the fact any pistol caliber carbine is going to give it even more of a speed boost with a longer barrel.

ETA: Any PD that still issues Hydrashoks has a crap armorer that isn't doing their homework and/or they are going cheap.
 
#80
#80
Grand Vol said:
Hydrashocks are almost worthless these days. Look up the gel tests on them especially with denim. Basically, the cavity fills up and it acts no better than a FMJ. Little to no expansion.

Go modern with JHP ammo like a bonded JHP design.

Regardless, there is still the weight issue and the fact any pistol caliber carbine is going to give it even more of a speed boost with a longer barrel.

ETA: Any PD that still issues Hydrashoks has a crap armorer that isn't doing their homework and/or they are going cheap.
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I meant personal defense not police dept. good to know on them that I what I keep loaded in my .40 that stays by the bed.
 
#81
#81
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#82
#82
Grand Vol said:
Hydrashocks are almost worthless these days. Look up the gel tests on them especially with denim. Basically, the cavity fills up and it acts no better than a FMJ. Little to no expansion.

Go modern with JHP ammo like a bonded JHP design.

Regardless, there is still the weight issue and the fact any pistol caliber carbine is going to give it even more of a speed boost with a longer barrel.

ETA: Any PD that still issues Hydrashoks has a crap armorer that isn't doing their homework and/or they are going cheap.
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Over penetration with 9mm hollow points? Or are you just talking FMJs?
 
#87
#87
FLVOL_79 said:
No idea. Only wasting disease I know of comes in at least 180 grain.
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I'm being serious.

Occurrence | Chronic Wasting Disease (CWD) | Prion Disease | CDC

CWD was first identified in captive deer in a Colorado research facility in the late 1960s, and in wild deer in 1981. By the 1990s, it had been reported in surrounding areas in northern Colorado and southern Wyoming. Since 2000, the area known to be affected by CWD in free-ranging animals has increased to at least 25 states, including states in the Midwest, Southwest, and limited areas on the East Coast. It is possible that CWD may also occur in other states without strong animal surveillance systems, but that cases haven’t been detected yet. Once CWD is established in an area, the risk can remain for a long time in the environment. The affected areas are likely to continue to expand.
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#88
#88
lawgator1 said:
Oooorrrrrrrr... the lax gun culture of your ideology has allowed too many guns into the hands of criminals, causing citizens who dislike them have to arm themselves in response.
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Bev Hills a bastion of lax gun culture? To be fair not sure where Alex Baldwin, or his armorer, resides.

Your argument is just as lazy as saying the needle laws in CA are driving heroin use in GA. You can get to that argument If you squint real hard, turn your head, and look past the trees to see the forest you want. But that barely qualifies as correlation yet alone causation.
 
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#89
#89
IluvdoubleD's said:
Nobody has any problem with you owning a gun or two. I own a gun. My father first put a gun in my hand when I was 6. The reason the gov can step in and create excess laws is because you can't handle yourself. Not that you can't handle a gun. That you hoard an arsenal in your basement, go mad, and rent a hotel room with plans on killing as many innocents as you can. Stop being insane conspiracy cult dicks and the gov has no reason to treat you like one.
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Except for the Bundy case....its a darn shame when the courts side with "insane conspiracy cult dicks" over your government.
 
#90
#90
AM64 said:
That's the thing about politicians. They go for the short term and don't consider the long term effect ... almost seems like they are among the most mentally challenged of our citizens.
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It's a self perpetuation scheme. If there were no problems for tomorrow they would be put of a job.
 
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#91
#91
lawgator1 said:
Oooorrrrrrrr... the lax gun culture of your ideology has allowed too many guns into the hands of criminals, causing citizens who dislike them have to arm themselves in response.
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It's not gun ownership ideology that puts too many guns in the hands of criminals. It's the mindset of a POS individual to use a gun to cause harm and take things from others they did not work for. The wild west was won by law enforcement using their guns to kill, on the spot, the criminals using guns for ill gotten gains and such. This isn't a new epidemic. But, when you restrict the control of the illegal side of it, there becomes an imbalance of epidemic proportions.
 
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#92
#92
lawgator1 said:
Oooorrrrrrrr... the lax gun culture of your ideology has allowed too many guns into the hands of criminals, causing citizens who dislike them have to arm themselves in response.
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Heinlein had a quote about an armed society...
 
#93
#93
lawgator1 said:
Oooorrrrrrrr... the lax gun culture of your ideology has allowed too many guns into the hands of criminals, causing citizens who dislike them have to arm themselves in response.
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How does his ideology allow guns in the hands of criminals? I mean, there are laws preventing criminals from possessing guns already. How would more laws help?
 
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