Bible Topic Thread (merged)

#226
#226
CSpindizzy said:
Amazing. I even said we ask others to pray for us and you STILL missed it. Please, go back and read what is said before typing. You are arguing points no others are even saying. Call me whatever you want. It really doesn't bother me.



There is a difference between praying for me and my dying Aunt Sally versus praying through some dead person in Heaven. Having a living person petition God here on earth is much different than praying through Mary. Again, come down to Corpus Christi Catholic Church in Stone Mtn, GA and correct the people. I'm sure they would appreciate you setting them straight.



Tell me where it is Biblical that you can pray to Mary and she will petition God? Where is it Biblical that ANY of the saints can be petitioned for prayer? Speaking to the dead sounds much on the end of what God condemned us to do.
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Exactly!
 
#227
#227
lzbvol said:
And Peter was not the first POPE and if he was which he was NOT-- may want to study some of his life check his marital status
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Yes Peter was married. And so were many others. Christ never said you must be celibate to be His follower or to spread His word. Besides Paul saying it is his preference but ONLY because of having priorities straight with focus on God, I see no other reason to dishonor the notion of creation.
 
#229
#229
UT I'm going to ask these questions cause I think you might have overlooked them and would like to hear your thoughts.

Peter is no greater than other didsciples. They were all equal. If Peter had power to forgive sins wouldn't they all have that ability? Peter was NOT the "best" or "holiest" apostle, they were all equal.

If Jews are not Cathoilics and Catholics are not Jews, how does Peter as the head of Christians among Jews(as you stated) and a Jew himself become the first Catholic pope? A Jewish pope seems a little weird.
 
#230
#230
Also calling priests "fathers" and popes "holy fathers" and having a pope sitting on a throne seem like idolatry? As there is only ONE FATHER why would you call a fellow sinner father or holy father?
 
#231
#231
Was Peter the first Catholic Pope?

But, do the Scriptures teach that Peter was in any way connected with the Catholic idea of a Pope? Did Peter have a special position where he was placed above all the other apostles? The Scriptures teach that Peter was not the first Pope neither would he approve of the present Pope or any other Pope. Here are a few reasons why Peter and all of us should reject the Pope and simply follow the apostles' teaching as revealed in the New Testament.

He had no more authority than any of the other apostles. The Roman Catholic church points to Matthew 16:13-19 to prove that Peter had a superior position of authority compared to the other apostles. However when we observe Matthew 18:15-20 (note verse 1 of that chapter, Jesus is talking to all the apostles), we see the apostles were eual in authrity. Peter even received rebuke from another apostle.Gal. 2:11-14.
 
#232
#232
MAT 16:13 ¶ Now when Jesus came into the district of Caesarea Philippi, He was asking His disciples, "Who do people say that the Son of Man is?"
MAT 16:14 And they said, "Some say John the Baptist; and others, Elijah; but still others, Jeremiah, or one of the prophets."
MAT 16:15 He said to them, "But who do you say that I am?"
MAT 16:16 Simon Peter answered, "You are the Christ, the Son of the living God."
MAT 16:17 And Jesus said to him, "Blessed are you, Simon Barjona, because flesh and blood did not reveal this to you, but My Father who is in heaven.
MAT 16:18 "I also say to you that you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build My church; and the gates of Hades will not overpower it.
MAT 16:19 "I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; and whatever you bind on earth shall have been bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall have been loosed in heaven."

MAT 18:1 At that time the disciples came to Jesus and said, "Who then is greatest in the kingdom of heaven?"
MAT 18:15 ¶ "If your brother sins, go and show him his fault in private; if he listens to you, you have won your brother.
MAT 18:16 "But if he does not listen to you, take one or two more with you, so that by the mouth of two or three witnesses every fact may be confirmed.
MAT 18:17 "If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, let him be to you as a Gentile and a tax collector.
MAT 18:18 "Truly I say to you, whatever you bind on earth shall have been bound in heaven; and whatever you loose on earth shall have been loosed in heaven.
MAT 18:19 ¶ "Again I say to you, that if two of you agree on earth about anything that they may ask, it shall be done for them by My Father who is in heaven.
MAT 18:20 "For where two or three have gathered together in My name, I am there in their midst."

GAL 2:11 ¶ But when Cephas came to Antioch, I opposed him to his face, because he stood condemned.
GAL 2:12 For prior to the coming of certain men from James, he used to eat with the Gentiles; but when they came, he began to withdraw and hold himself aloof, fearing the party of the circumcision.
GAL 2:13 The rest of the Jews joined him in hypocrisy, with the result that even Barnabas was carried away by their hypocrisy.
GAL 2:14 But when I saw that they were not straightforward about the truth of the gospel, I said to Cephas in the presence of all, "If you, being a Jew, live like the Gentiles and not like the Jews, how is it that you compel the Gentiles to live like Jews?

Although it is claimed by the Catholic Church that Peter was endowed with special authority that no other apostle had, the Scriptures above make it clear that all the apostles were given authority. Although they were inspired, it did not make them incapable of sinning for even Peter was rebuked by the apostle Paul. He did not ever claim to be infallible like the Pope does today
 
#233
#233
CSpindizzy said:
Yes Peter was married. And so were many others. Christ never said you must be celibate to be His follower or to spread His word. Besides Paul saying it is his preference but ONLY because of having priorities straight with focus on God, I see no other reason to dishonor the notion of creation.
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Thanks for answering that---The problem I have with the POPE and ROME is among other things -- He is considered infalliable and anything he wishes to decree supercedes any and ALL scripture as he is promoted as GOD"S envoy here on earth --NO MAN me you or any one else can declare something that would take the place of GOD"S word everything we say if not backed up and supported by scripture in the proper context is only vain rambling and of NO value -- Each demonation has it's doctrine we are faced with determing which most closely follows GOD'S word and Each stray some what because we are humans add our thoughts as time passes-- But time and history tells of the POPE's of the Spanish enquistion and the TERROR that the Catholic church afflicted people with for standing on GOD"S word and wanting the scriptures for themselves folks being burned at the stake for their stand --Read FOXES'S book of martyers for some sense of the injustice casued by the POPE"S of that day people perscuted on a daily basis ---Thanks
 
#234
#234
He(Peter) was married and had a God-given right to be married. Matthew 8:14-15, 1 Cor. 9:5. Peter would not even have qualified to be the Pope today for he was obviously married. Not only that but Peter did not forbid any of the other apostles from marrying. It was their God-given right to do so if they wished. Yet today, the Catholic Church forbids not only the Pope from marrying but their priests.

MAT 8:14 ¶ When Jesus came into Peter's home, He saw his mother-in-law lying sick in bed with a fever.
MAT 8:15 He touched her hand, and the fever left her; and she got up and waited on Him.

1CO 9:5 Do we not have a right to take along a believing wife, even as the rest of the apostles and the brothers of the Lord and Cephas?

3. He refused all exalted human titles. Matthew 23:1-12. How could we ever believe that in light of this statement by Jesus, Peter would then gladly accept the title of Pope, Father or any other human title. These are for the praise of men not for the glorifying of God!
 
#235
#235
Read the Great Commission in all 4 Gospels and in Acts. ALL were given power and authority. He said to THEM that THEY shall receive power when the Holy Spirit comes upon THEM and THEY shall be witnesses in Jerusalem, Judea, Samaria, and into the uttermost parts of the earth. I'm not sure where Rome comes into this. Actuall all references to Rome are in the negative in the New Testament.
 
#236
#236
lzbvol said:
OK what do you believe??? and WHY
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I believe that the King James Version is a translation of the Bible that was done to make the scripture accessible to the people of the time in their style of language.

While I often prefer the phrasing of the KJV (it is what I grew up with) I feel that some of the language is archaic and difficult to understand at times.

I do not believe that the translators of the KJV were any more (or less) divinely inspired than translators of the NIV (which I currently use) or the NRSV (which my pastor has recommended and I plan to buy). When I read scripture, I like to read a few different versions to see if I can find better meaning through comparing the language of the different versions.

I am not enough of a biblical scholar to argue the merits of the "Textus Receptus" that the KJV used versus the source text of the NIV or NRSV.

Why do you consider the translators of the KJV to be divinely inspired?
 
#238
#238
Fairly educational debate, which is very rare around here, but I'm not sure why it's still raging on. Wars have been fought over this exact topic and nobody won. It's all interpretation of stuff written by people 60+ years removed from the actual circumstances. Literal interpretation of one word vs. another and intended meaning in those words is a bit silly to me, because of the inherent fallibility in the authors and how far they were actually removed from the events.
 
#239
#239
As I mentioned earlier I don't expect trut or anyone that has opposing views on this topic to change their views based on anything I have said. And at the same time I won't be changing my beliefs.

However as I posted several posts ago I feel like I have been having trouble connecting with the Lord lately and finally feel like I have been reconnected again. I'm so excited and I know this thread has helped me get focused on my relationship with Christ.

I just want to say I respect all posters who were involved and thank each and everyone of them for challenging me in so many ways. God bless!!!!
 
#240
#240
Just remember that even throughout the New Testament it says to be mindful of those preaching false doctrine. This is not directed at anyone or any group but those believing in the end times will know it will only get worse and the worst will come from within. The greatest thing Christians have to fear is from within with false teachers. There is only one hope and that is going directly to Christ and the Bible for the answers and proof. If you doubt the greater threat is from within read Paul's letters. Who were they addressing? The different churches themselves and the internal conflict from within.
 
#242
#242
Appreciated. Believe you me I have done much studying and prayer on many debated issues. Like I said, many are not to the level of concern about man's soul and the true nature of the Trinity. But when things come to that importance, I try to at least challenge what is said. We are all learning. We are all children working for maturity. It's only through the Holy Spirit that this knowledge can be learned and clarified. If anything, this debate has caused quite a few of us to stick our noses in the Bible and learn a few new things. So at the end of the day, we can say we've grown towards that maturity. Good work on your part as well.
 
#243
#243
vader said:
I believe that the King James Version is a translation of the Bible that was done to make the scripture accessible to the people of the time in their style of language.

While I often prefer the phrasing of the KJV (it is what I grew up with) I feel that some of the language is archaic and difficult to understand at times.

I do not believe that the translators of the KJV were any more (or less) divinely inspired than translators of the NIV (which I currently use) or the NRSV (which my pastor has recommended and I plan to buy). When I read scripture, I like to read a few different versions to see if I can find better meaning through comparing the language of the different versions.

I am not enough of a biblical scholar to argue the merits of the "Textus Receptus" that the KJV used versus the source text of the NIV or NRSV.

Why do you consider the translators of the KJV to be divinely inspired?
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Thanks for the Reply:

I think each person needs to know what they believe and why I don't have the time available NOW I must leave for work in a couple minutes but, I will say when I was first saved I knew nothing of this debate of which version do we use. but to use a term from the football side of things if we are on a team (local church) everyone on that team needs the same playbook. That was the reason I began a few months after I was saved to study on which playbook was right. I began first by simply comparing the KJV with the NIV verse by verse. First we need to know that we can debate about a lot of things within christianity but true followers of Christ know that there are some things DOCTRINE that is not up for debate #1 The way of salvation ( only one door ) #2 The virgin Birth ( a virgin shall conceive, not a young girlbut, a VIRGIN) # 3 Who Jesus is ( HE is GOD )
their are a few MUST's but those got me started. Other versions begin to slowly with a few word changes make these doctrines something that could be debated. Just start on your comparing KEY verses where BLOOD, Worship, Deity of CHRIST, and the TRINITY are concerned. If we are on GOD's team so to speak I just think he is big enough and and GOD enough to provide me with his word not several 100 different versions of his word he did tell us he would preserve his word and he did it not some modern day professor who all of sudden can finally translate a better version because of his great knowledge --- I must go I will post more later --Thanks
 
#244
#244
StunnA N' Orange said:
So you're saying if I sinned constantly and distanced myself from God he'd still accept me into his home? I have a hard time blieveing that. People can't just quit on him and expect to reap the benefits.
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Once you accept Christ as your Savior, you are given a mansion in Heaven, however, as a Christian it is your responsibility to live a godly life so as to be a good witness to nonbelievers.

In Heaven, we will be given crowns with stars on them signifying our good works, and we will lay them at Jesus's feet, giving Him everything we have to praise Him.
2 Timothy 4:8
Now there is in store for me the crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous Judge, will award to me on that day—and not only to me, but also to all who have longed for his appearing.
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#245
#245
sea of orange said:
Once you accept Christ as your Savior, you are given a mansion in Heaven, however, as a Christian it is your responsibility to live a godly life so as to be a good witness to nonbelievers.

quote]

Wow! An actual mansion.

Seriosuly though, there are some people on here that appear rather educated on religion. I would like some views on what is heaven?

Do you exist in an actual phyiscal state or something else?

What is the purpose or the activities you will be involved in for eternity? I mean are you working a job? Have some goals? Or just spend enternity relaxing enjoying the good life?

Serious questions would like some real honest views...
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#246
#246
allvol123 said:
Wow! An actual mansion.

Seriosuly though, there are some people on here that appear rather educated on religion. I would like some views on what is heaven?

Do you exist in an actual phyiscal state or something else?

What is the purpose or the activities you will be involved in for eternity? I mean are you working a job? Have some goals? Or just spend enternity relaxing enjoying the good life?

Serious questions would like some real honest views...
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I have actually been reading a book about what Heaven will be like entitled "Heaven". I can't remember the author offhand, but I will post his name and some of the things in his book when I get home tonight.
 
#247
#247
CSpindizzy said:
Just remember that even throughout the New Testament it says to be mindful of those preaching false doctrine. This is not directed at anyone or any group but those believing in the end times will know it will only get worse and the worst will come from within. The greatest thing Christians have to fear is from within with false teachers. There is only one hope and that is going directly to Christ and the Bible for the answers and proof. If you doubt the greater threat is from within read Paul's letters. Who were they addressing? The different churches themselves and the internal conflict from within.
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Catholics as false teachers is a bit extreme.
 
#249
#249
BigPapaVol said:
Catholics as false teachers is a bit extreme.
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It may sound extreme and harsh-- but the sad fact is that ANY group that says you may pray to the heavenly FATHER thru any person but CHRIST is teaching FLASE Doctrine--

Think about any religous NUTS of our day where did most get thier roots? == Baptist Churches== Before the baptist bash me let me say I am a Baptist -- an independent missionary baptist to be exact-- but Jim Jones had his upbring as a baptist --- David Koresh even had a background related to baptist--

So I agree that whom Paul is speaking to is the Religous crowd --- They were around then and they are around now --- A religous leader will play a KEY role in the endtimes and I think I know the address that leader will have a least the city he will be from
 
#250
#250
lzbvol said:
Think about any religous NUTS of our day where did most get thier roots? == Baptist Churches== Before the baptist bash me let me say I am a Baptist -- an independent missionary baptist to be exact-- but Jim Jones had his upbring as a baptist --- David Koresh even had a background related to baptist--

So I agree that whom Paul is speaking to is the Religous crowd --- They were around then and they are around now --- A religous leader will play a KEY role in the endtimes and I think I know the address that leader will have a least the city he will be from
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What does that have to do with anything? No matter what group of people you look at, their will always be some bad eggs.

No one knows when Christ will return.
Peter 3:10
But the day of the Lord will come like a thief. The heavens will disappear with a roar; the elements will be destroyed by fire, and the earth and everything in it will be laid bare.
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