Biden wants 3 month mandate on Masks

[Septic]

You’re arguing that immigration from the top 15 is required evidence of American greatness

No, I didn't. I stated first world peers immigrating to the U.S. would be more convincing evidence of American exceptionalism than that of third world citizens.

If you want to participate, either pay better attention or don't intentionally misrepresent what I said.

 

[ajvol01]

No, I didn't. I stated first world peers immigrating to the U.S. would be more convincing evidence of American exceptionalism than that of third world citizens.

If you want to participate, either pay better attention or don't intentionally misrepresent what I said.

 

[Septic]

What needs to be clarified? We have more opportunity and options for success and self sufficiency than any people on earth.

Go back and read my follow up. You'd need to define what opportunity means and how it's calculated, otherwise it's just another feel good cliche'.

How is America offering more opportunity to it's citizens than our first world peers? Show your work.

 

[Septic]

So you honestly think our freedoms are no better than other first world countries?

Never said that. The question is what makes America exceptional versus its peers.

That's the issue with you guys, your myopic sense of patriotism makes you throw up defensive walls when someone dares question your belief in 'Murican superiority. Instead of offering up quantifiable examples, the defensive posture shifts to 'WHy dO yOu hAtE AmUriKa?"

 

[Septic]

Good job stopping at the first paragraph and ignoring all the stuff that hasnt been brought up before.

Seems like you didnt think anyone would call your bluff on the source material so now you are deflecting/ignoring.

Ignoring what? The data on HK was collected before China started in on the current issues. If you want to invalidate the conclusions of the study for unforeseeable events that occurred after it was completed, g'head. Whatever helps you sleep better at night.

 

[Septic]

What needs to be clarified? We have more opportunity and options for success and self sufficiency than any people on earth.

Again, had you read my follow up you'd have known what I was seeking clarification on.

 

[Septic]

Uh. Those countries do have death panels. So it's the government deciding whether you have enough good years left to be worth it. That's not an improvement in my book. Why not let people keep their money and make that decision on their own?

That sounds very scary, but not really any scarier than a private health care company making those same decisions without any recourse or transparency. You just get to pay more to have the same panel, whose P&L hinges on treatments (or lack thereof). That really must be a great comfort.

Healthcare costs and access for it's population isn't really where the U.S. shines. Certainly not an area that makes it 'exceptional'.

 

[hog88]

Go back and read my follow up. You'd need to define what opportunity means and how it's calculated, otherwise it's just another feel good cliche'.

How is America offering more opportunity to it's citizens than our first world peers? Show your work.

Which Country Has the Richest Middle Class?

Countries with the most millionaires in 2019 | Statista

List of countries by number of billionaires - Wikipedia

 

[luthervol]

Which Country Has the Richest Middle Class?

Countries with the most millionaires in 2019 | Statista

List of countries by number of billionaires - Wikipedia

We do value and prioritize the dollar far more than most.

 

[hog88]

Another one.

file:///C:/Users/CPHILL~1/AppData/Local/Temp/global-wealth-report-2019-en.pdf

 

[Septic]

Which Country Has the Richest Middle Class?

Countries with the most millionaires in 2019 | Statista

List of countries by number of billionaires - Wikipedia

Did you read the first article you linked? Which Country Has the Richest Middle Class?

According to the article you cited, Canada has the richest middle class.

According to the most recent numbers in 2019 from Credit Suisse's annual global wealth report, Canadians’ middle class or median wealth of $106,342 outranked the same median income figure of $61,670 for Americans.

Several factors have allowed Canada to pass the U.S. in middle-class prosperity. First, American educational attainment has dropped precipitously in comparison to other developed countries. While Americans over 55 are highly educated and literate compared to their Canadian and European counterparts, the same cannot be said for those in the 16- to 24-year-old age bracket, who rank near the bottom for all rich countries in educational attainment.

Additionally, the private sector wage gap between high-level executives and entry-level workers is massive in the U.S., especially when compared to Canada and developed European countries. This is why economic indicators such as GDP can be misleading when trying to discern which country's citizens are doing the best economically. The U.S. boasts impressive economic numbers, but a large number of its citizens do not benefit from them.

In other words, if prosperity in the middle class in an indicator of exceptionalism - we're doing well, but nothing of significance verses our peers.

 

[LouderVol]

That sounds very scary, but not really any scarier than a private health care company making those same decisions without any recourse or transparency. You just get to pay more to have the same panel, whose P&L hinges on treatments (or lack thereof). That really must be a great comfort.

Healthcare costs and access for it's population isn't really where the U.S. shines. Certainly not an area that makes it 'exceptional'.

I have plenty of recourse compared to the government system. especially considering the british modus operandi of not letting patients seek treatment elsewhere.

paying more is an option. changing providers or networks is an option. heck leaving the country is an option, which as noted the Brits dont get.

the brits don't even have right to try
they have a government selected 5 product cap accelerated path program.
Is it time for the UK to have the right to try? | The Brain Tumour Charity.

 

[hog88]

Did you read the first article you linked? Which Country Has the Richest Middle Class?

According to the article you cited, Canada has the richest middle class.



In other words, if prosperity in the middle class in an indicator of exceptionalism - we're doing well, but nothing of significance verses our peers.

Did you read the first ****ing sentence in the article? Of course you did but then you decided to cherry pick to defend your defenseless argument.

For decades, the United States boasted the honor of having the richest middle-class. However, as of 2019, Canada has the wealthiest middle class of any country in the world.

Canada passing us in the richest middle class category for 1 year does not negate the DECADES that distinction belonged to the US.

And this is what you get when you elect people like Obama and Cameron.

While the middle-class incomes of Canada and most Western European countries continued to rise, even during the deep global recession that began in 2009, the U.S. saw its median annual income fall during the late 2000s and early 2010s. The only other aforementioned country to experience a similar decline was Britain. The middle class in Canada, on the other hand, continued to amass wealth robustly during the recession, albeit at a slightly slower pace than in years prior.

 

[LouderVol]

Ignoring what? The data on HK was collected before China started in on the current issues. If you want to invalidate the conclusions of the study for unforeseeable events that occurred after it was completed, g'head. Whatever helps you sleep better at night.

again HK was only the first paragraph. Even when challenged on it, and you respond, you don't address the rest of my points.

the rest of my OP deals with disagreeing, or finding fault, with their study. which I backed up in another post.

 

[Septic]

Did you read the first ****ing sentence in the article? Of course you did but then you decided to cherry pick to defend your defenseless argument.



Canada passing us in the richest middle class category for 1 year does not negate the DECADES that distinction belonged to the US.

And this is what you get when you elect people like Obama and Cameron.

So being surpassed by a peer is what makes us exceptional? Were we exceptional then, but not now? I don't think opportunity to advance occurred overnight and was likely a result of decades of great opportunity afforded by all our peers.

This noodle isn't sticking, fling another.

 

[Septic]

again HK was only the first paragraph. Even when challenged on it, and you respond, you don't address the rest of my points.

the rest of my OP deals with disagreeing, or finding fault, with their study. which I backed up in another post.

Challenged on what? Your replies are little more that nonsensical pigeon strutting.

Lots of folks clutching their pearls at someone daring to ask what makes America exceptional, if I missed your post it was because I was dodging the snowflake mobs limp dicked circular logic that America is great because it's exceptional, sorry.

 

[Septic]

I have plenty of recourse compared to the government system. especially considering the british modus operandi of not letting patients seek treatment elsewhere.

paying more is an option. changing providers or networks is an option. heck leaving the country is an option, which as noted the Brits dont get.

the brits don't even have right to try
they have a government selected 5 product cap accelerated path program.
Is it time for the UK to have the right to try? | The Brain Tumour Charity.

"right to try", I see you've drilled down to a firm enough area to plant a flag of superiority.

In the U.S. who is paying for the experimental treatment for the scores of uninsured American's that don't have insurance? No "right" to try for them.

Again, healthcare costs and access to it is not the hill to die on when trying to make the case for American exceptionalism.

 

[615vols]

Not according to me, according to the study I offered.

For someone who is so adamant about context and accuracy, seems like that would have been an important distinction for you to pick up on.

All the rest of your immigration argument by third world citizens is nonsensical, trot this one out when the question is "is the U.S. more exceptional than Honduras?"

The study you offered? The one that ranks Hong Kong above the United States in freedom?
You expect anyone with a brain to buy that nonsense? You are trying to pass of a study that says Hong Kong is more free than America and then whining to me about “accuracy”
Always a good laugh reading your posts.

 

[carlos86]

And then he told me to mandate masks

View attachment 299831

 

[utvolpj]

View attachment 299857

Point?

As I've said from the beginning, protect the vulnerable. The data shows who those are

 

[Y9 Vol]

The average age of the diciest in those counties please?

 

[Septic]

The study you offered? The one that ranks Hong Kong above the United States in freedom?
You expect anyone with a brain to buy that nonsense? You are trying to pass of a study that says Hong Kong is more free than America and then whining to me about “accuracy”
Always a good laugh reading your posts.

The study was completed before the current issues in HK, as has been pointed out several times. I can explain that to you but I can't understand it for you.

This is really a easier concept to reconcile than your other failed argument about third world immigrants.

On a side note, your unearned condescension is coming across as forced, especially for someone who literally brought nothing to the table worthy of serious consideration.

 

[volinbham]

late to the party but:

1. Mandate? How is that enforced? Is it Constitutional? Joe doesn't know or care.
2. Outside? What about inside public places? That's where the problem lies. Outside transmission if virtually nil and if you are more than 6 ft apart outside no mask is needed. Joe is a moron.
3. Guarantee K. Harris has been outside without a mask on; violating the mandate she endorsed.

 

[jp1]

Go back and read my follow up. You'd need to define what opportunity means and how it's calculated, otherwise it's just another feel good cliche'.

How is America offering more opportunity to it's citizens than our first world peers? Show your work.

Just take your "L" and call it a day.

 

[LouderVol]

"right to try", I see you've drilled down to a firm enough area to plant a flag of superiority.

In the U.S. who is paying for the experimental treatment for the scores of uninsured American's that don't have insurance? No "right" to try for them.

Again, healthcare costs and access to it is not the hill to die on when trying to make the case for American exceptionalism.

If you want to bring up costs, which again isnt a limit on the negative freedom your list was using, taxes should be considered.

At least if they are consistent.

But maybe it's more like their rule of law=freedom. If this doesnt sound familiar it's because it's the part/post you skipped.

Since I have been using the UK (easiest for me to find info on) I would be taxed at 40%. That's a fair step up for me. Their government budget is 37.7% of their gdp. As opposed to the US 20% ish of course thanks to trumps magic Covid money that's closer to 25%. So it's clear they tax overall a lot more than we do. But according to your link that's probably considered a freedom to"get" to pay taxes while "having" to pay for health insurance here is considered a negative.

An individual might come out better under their system. But with the higher gdp ratio I dont see an argument for a freer system overall.

Who else was on the list? Norway has a surplus, I guess they are free to be taxed more.

Germany is also running a surplus. But at a 45.4% budget to gdp I would hope so. More freedom there.

You cant pretend it's a zero sum game of only health care out of pocket expenses. Especially under this idea of "freedom" of paying more to get more free stuff. It's a reductive/ self defeating argument. If American healthcare got off the cheap and charged what others tax, while removing any choice of having healthcare, I guess that would be more free or exceptional in your book?