Biden wants 3 month mandate on Masks

#151
#151
Septic said:
This 'immigration' argument would make sense if citizens of other first world peers were flocking to the U.S.

Thumping your chest because the mistreated citizens of third world countries are doing so isn't the proof of "exceptionalism" that you think it is.
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How many are leaving the U.S. for the “top 15”?

Can’t have it both ways.
 
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#156
#156
Septic said:
Stifling protests like hurling pepper balls or tear gas into the crowd for photo ops or getting arrested for calling a policeman a dirty cop on facebook? I think the study looks at broad areas of freedom and indexes them across human, personal and economic terms. That said, the study was done prior to the Hong Kong issues, so for arguments sake - lets take that one out of the mix, now we sit at sixteen.

If you and @hog88 or @ajvol01 would like to dive into the ranking criteria, be my guest. https://www.cato.org/sites/cato.org...ex-files/human-freedom-index-2018-revised.pdf
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Yeah. Like I thought they are basing their freedom scores based on laws.
"Individual freedom is therefore depen-
dent on the rule of law, a broad concept that
encompasses due process, equal treatment un-
der the law, accountability of government of-
ficials, and notions of fairness, predictability,
and justice."
The more laws a nation has the more "protected" the citizens are and in their world the more "free" they are.

It starts with talking about negative freedom (freedom of outside constraints), but then uses excludes the laws.

I havent seen if they dive into it but I would love to see how they divide authoratarian laws vs not. I get the suspicion that "for the children" laws just are assumed to be more free than not. Which I would say is not inherently true.

I am not arguing for positive freedom, freedom from ANY constraint. But I think it's short sighted in this discussion to not dive into these laws. Which would truly be exhaustive, and outside the scope they took.
 
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#158
#158
This gives Biden a debate talking point. Nothing more, nothing less. He is "on record".
 
#159
#159
615vols said:
Well according to you we aren’t even in the top 15 in freedom and choice, so why is it that all of these people choose to flock to the states instead of one of these top 15 who are more free and allow more choice? You’ve made another in a long list of stupid arguments, congratulations.
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Not according to me, according to the study I offered.

For someone who is so adamant about context and accuracy, seems like that would have been an important distinction for you to pick up on.

All the rest of your immigration argument by third world citizens is nonsensical, trot this one out when the question is "is the U.S. more exceptional than Honduras?"
 
#160
#160
Septic said:
This 'immigration' argument would make sense if citizens of other first world peers were flocking to the U.S.

Thumping your chest because the mistreated citizens of third world countries are doing so isn't the proof of "exceptionalism" that you think it is.
Click to expand...
I think there is only one nation where we are a net loss of population to.

This is just total. Cant find the year to year.
https://assets.pewresearch.org/wp-c...Portraits_Current-Data_5_Country-of-birth.png

American expats in the U.K. fear coronavirus could leave them in limbo
 
#161
#161
hog88 said:
The study gives credit to countries that provide universal heathcare and other social "benefits" which to me invalidates it's findings. The more you rely on the government the less free you actually are.
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LOL, OK.

I think from an individuals perspective, not having to worry about paying for a cancer treatment would be pretty liberating.

Instead, we rely on the healthcare companies to approve or disapprove of treatment options, that is super comforting.
 
#163
#163
hog88 said:
The study gives credit to countries that provide universal heathcare and other social "benefits" which to me invalidates it's findings. The more you rely on the government the less free you actually are.
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Yeah as I found in another post they base their scores on how much a country "guarantees" your rights via law.

Our constitution works the other way for the most part.

They also bring up case numbers as well. So I am wondering if they further base the freedom of law on how often it gets challenged/used.

If you never run out the length of your chain how would you ever know you arent free?
 
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#164
#164
LouderVol said:
You may need to find an updated source. They still have Hong Kong way higher. Which is weird considering the chinese occupation, closed elections, travel bans etc.

Not that we have gotten any more free in the meantime.

And by pointing out how low we are on some of those charts all you are doing is making our argument. We are too low. The government keeps taking away from the people and the only solution given is more government. I think this link just gives some type of metric to say we have work to do. The government and society is taking away what some of us value.

And without being able to see how they weighted items their idea of freedom is probably not the same as mine. For instance access to health care is listed in one of their categories. That isnt an issue of "freedom" in my book. They seem to bounce back and forth between what a citizen can do vs a citizen has to do as matters of freedom. But without being able to see their specifics I couldnt say how, or if, they are wrong to do so
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2018... So?

I think that the recent events in Hong Kong insert has thrown the detractors of the study into a tizzy. Only 16 more countries to plow through to show how the U.S. is alone atop the worlds freedom index.
 
#165
#165
Septic said:
LOL, OK.

I think from an individuals perspective, not having to worry about paying for a cancer treatment would be pretty liberating.

Instead, we rely on the healthcare companies to approve or disapprove of treatment options, that is super comforting.
Click to expand...

You are paying for your cancer treatment one way or the other. I would think the freedom to choose my doctor and course of treatment more liberating should I ever need to.
 
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#168
#168
Septic said:
LOL, OK.

I think from an individuals perspective, not having to worry about paying for a cancer treatment would be pretty liberating.

Instead, we rely on the healthcare companies to approve or disapprove of treatment options, that is super comforting.
Click to expand...
Uh. Those countries do have death panels. So it's the government deciding whether you have enough good years left to be worth it. That's not an improvement in my book. Why not let people keep their money and make that decision on their own?
 
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#169
#169
hog88 said:
You are paying for your cancer treatment one way or the other. I would think the freedom to choose my doctor and course of treatment more liberating should I ever need to.
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If you have coverage, many here don't. That doesn't seem very exceptional.
 
#173
#173
Septic said:
2018... So?

I think that the recent events in Hong Kong insert has thrown the detractors of the study into a tizzy. Only 16 more countries to plow through to show how the U.S. is alone atop the worlds freedom index.
Click to expand...
Good job stopping at the first paragraph and ignoring all the stuff that hasnt been brought up before.

Seems like you didnt think anyone would call your bluff on the source material so now you are deflecting/ignoring.
 
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