Billionaires and Roth IRAs: the case for tax reform

[McDad]

National sales tax. And only that. Not a VAT. Those with more money will spend more and be taxed more. No one escapes being taxed. No deductions.

Retail sales in 1 year = 5T.
Income tax revenue =3T.

If we shift to NST from income tax and we attempt to raise the same revenue, the NST will need to be 60%. Assuming the higher prices don't alter purchase habits.

 

[hog88]

Eliminate ALL loopholes. Lower taxes and stop the non sensical tax code we now have. The only ones that should have to hire a CPA are corporations.

I agree except why single out corporations?

 

[hog88]

Mortgage deduction and SALT?

Sure

 

[hog88]

How about $5 million as a starting point? These are supposed to be retirement accounts. How many retired folks can’t get by on $5 million?

That’s not for you to decide.

 

[Impossible Girl]

I agree except why single out corporations?

Why is that singling out? Corporations have a much more complex situation than an individual, and so have tax professionals for audit, etc. is necessary.

 

[hog88]

Why is that singling out? Corporations have a much more complex situation than an individual, and so have tax professionals for audit, etc. is necessary.

My mistake, I thought you were singling corps out for different taxes.

 

[Impossible Girl]

Did you just compare tax laws to keeping people in shackles?

We are talking tax laws for retirement funding.

Context might help here.

Slavery had victims.

There was no victim here.

Compare? On in the limited sense of what was analogous. That being that simply because something is legal doesn’t mean it’s correct, fair or just. But, nice try.

 

[hog88]

Compare? On in the limited sense of what was analogous. That being that simply because something is legal doesn’t mean it’s correct, fair or just. But, nice try.

Fair and just are way too subjective terms to be used when talking about taxes.

 

[Impossible Girl]

Fair and just are way too subjective terms to be used when talking about taxes.

The original article referenced is pretty specific.

 

[hog88]

The original article referenced is pretty specific.

The original article was nothing but a butt-hurt hit piece.

 

[McDad]

The original article was nothing but a butt-hurt hit piece.

Was also a "door opener" to move the threshold of absurdity from billions to a few million.

 

[Impossible Girl]

The original article was nothing but a butt-hurt hit piece.

Ok. Thanks for your input.

 

[NEO]

Ok. Thanks for your input.

I would stop calling yourself a conservative.

Either you are a troll or you don’t understand what a conservative is.

You comparing a tax law that allows someone to make a lot of money to slavery shows you have a liberal mindset are are pretty woke.

Just admit who you are.

We are polar opposites on this topic though.

 

[utvolpj]

Was also a "door opener" to move the threshold of absurdity from billions to a few million.

I started paying attention when I became the target of "conservatives". I'll never be a billionaire but I know where my retirement accounts are headed

 

[McDad]

I started paying attention when I became the target of "conservatives". I'll never be a billionaire but I know where my retirement accounts are headed

Samesies

 

[Impossible Girl]

I would stop calling yourself a conservative.

Either you are a troll or you don’t understand what a conservative is.

You comparing a tax law that allows someone to make a lot of money to slavery shows you have a liberal mindset are are pretty woke.

Just admit who you are.

We are polar opposites on this topic though.

Well, that’s a total misrepresentation. I have no problem with people making money. I do a lot of business with wealthy people and it’s paid me handsomely. I’m just not naive that there aren’t manipulations the Uber wealthy exploit.

 

[hog88]

Well, that’s a total misrepresentation. I have no problem with people making money. I do a lot of business with wealthy people and it’s paid me handsomely. I’m just not naive that there aren’t manipulations the Uber wealthy exploit.

Exploit isn't the proper term. "Utilize to their fullest" is much better.

 

[Impossible Girl]

Exploit isn't the proper term. "Utilize to their fullest" is much better.

Perhaps.

 

[NEO]

Perhaps.

This is the way I view it also.

Now, if you want to get into a morality aspect on how a billionaire should be utilizing their money then I may honestly lean much closer to you.

I just fall under the belief that a person can use their wealth much better and wiser than a government can. But at the end of the day, it’s still their personal decision.

 

[Redleg68]

https://www.propublica.org/article/...s-into-a-5-billion-dollar-tax-free-piggy-bank


This should make every American very angry. This is exactly what's wrong with our tax system. I am of the opinion it should no longer be run by Congress. As long as they themselves get insider deals, and as long as they are dependent on the generosity of those that do, the Congress cannot be trusted with the power to make the rules on taxation.

I'm open to alternatives. A constitutional amendment to tax all income, regardless of source, at a flat 10 %? No exemptions, deductions, no tricks or dodges. Or how about a pro rata share of the country's bills every year, plus a 30 year plan to pay off the debt, based on income? Would force Congress to be careful in its spending because taxes rise or fall every year based on what they outlay.

Bottom line is that the tax system is currently manipulated by those with enormous wealth so as to concentrate wealth even further and it needs to end.

Well it is the idiots that we put in Washington that writes those rules. If memory serves me correctly, the Roth came into existence under the Clinton administration.

 

[LouderVol]

Retail sales in 1 year = 5T.
Income tax revenue =3T.

If we shift to NST from income tax and we attempt to raise the same revenue, the NST will need to be 60%. Assuming the higher prices don't alter purchase habits.

It wouldnt just be retail though that would have a sales tax. Or at least it shpuldnt be in my opinion. Maybe you are using retail differently.

For me that would include any purchase, property, stock, "wholesale" etc.

And the trade off financially is simplified taxing. We are probably paying close to 60% taxes already on purchases. My income is taxed +30%. And then you have every knock on tax on every product you purchase.

I am thinking it's a relative wash for the end user.

Especially if you scheme it to have some "progressive" taxing. Some necessity goods low to no taxes. Luxury goods way high.

 

[LouderVol]

Exploit isn't the proper term. "Utilize to their fullest" is much better.

It's also a factor of scale.

If I make a 1% growth on my various 401k returns I make a few thousand. The rich the same 1% can be millions.

Both of us are utilizing the same system with the same benefit, it just scales for them.

 

[McDad]

It wouldnt just be retail though that would have a sales tax. Or at least it shpuldnt be in my opinion. Maybe you are using retail differently.

For me that would include any purchase, property, stock, "wholesale" etc.

And the trade off financially is simplified taxing. We are probably paying close to 60% taxes already on purchases. My income is taxed +30%. And then you have every knock on tax on every product you purchase.

I am thinking it's a relative wash for the end user.

Especially if you scheme it to have some "progressive" taxing. Some necessity goods low to no taxes. Luxury goods way high.

How would I find the yearly value of all exchanges of money for goods and services? I looked earlier and found that retail number but not much else.

 

[Thunder Good-Oil]

The crypto bros would love to see a national sales tax on anything and everything.

 

[LouderVol]

How would I find the yearly value of all exchanges of money for goods and services? I looked earlier and found that retail number but not much else.

Not sure. I figure it's got to be tied pretty closely to the gdp.

Good thing about a universal sales tax. Hits the government as well.