Billionaires and Roth IRAs: the case for tax reform

[C-south]

No consideration for dependents or marital status?

It already is very simple to prepare a 1040 EZ. Even if that is too complicated for some earners, they can get free help or even let the IRS complete their return. Online filing portals are available that are very easy to follow. I don’t know what needs to be done to simplify basic returns even more.

No. Why should there be?

 

[walkenvol]

How much did you earn? ______________ x .1 = _________________ attach check here --->

Ah, the unicorn known as the flat tax. We will all be dust in the wind before that ever happens.

Guess I’m trying to think within the boundaries of things that might be possible. Flat tax, Congress quit spending, and lowering of taxes are outside of those boundaries IMO. Simply unrealistic to think they might happen

 

[walkenvol]

no. It is not the government's business to determine someone's lifestyle wants/needs.

Based on that logic then we should either do away with tax deferred or tax free accounts altogether. The government already determines how much you can contribute yearly and when your allowed to spend it without penalties, etc. Nothing is keeping you from accumulating monies outside of these tax advantaged accounts to fund whatever lifestyle you choose.

 

[Thunder Good-Oil]

How about $5 million as a starting point? These are supposed to be retirement accounts. How many retired folks can’t get by on $5 million?

“Starting point”.

“The Revenue Act of 1916 began the practice of adjusting tax rates and income scales. The original income tax was 1% for the bottom bracket, which was comprised of income up to $20,000, and 7% for the top bracket, which was comprised of income over $500,000.”

 

[walkenvol]

You mean business owners?

Investors, day traders

 

[SpaceCoastVol]

Ah, the unicorn known as the flat tax. We will all be dust in the wind before that ever happens.

Guess I’m trying to think within the boundaries of things that might be possible. Flat tax, Congress quit spending, and lowering of taxes are outside of those boundaries IMO. Simply unrealistic to think they might happen

Oh I will make that an albino unicorn to boot. It has to be a constitutional amendment.

I am under no illusion that there is going to be any 'fix' to the tax code.

 

[C-south]

Investors, day traders

They don’t have records of their income?

 

[Thunder Good-Oil]

No. Why should there be?

Certainly not for marital status. Are we at the point yet where you can be legally married to your dog? Should guys be allowed to have a bunch of wives and separate tax brackets?

It’s also backwards that those with a lot of kids create a bigger financial drain on government than those without, but those without are required to “contribute” more in taxes.

 

[C-south]

Certainly not for marital status. Are we at the point yet where you can be legally married to your dog? Should guys be allowed to have a bunch of wives and separate tax brackets?

It’s also backwards that those with a lot of kids create a bigger financial drain on government than those without, but those without are required to “contribute” more in taxes.

I agree.

 

[walkenvol]

Ask yourself this. If you or whoever manages your Roth and were lucky/incredibly good managed to flip your Roth portfolio into $2, $5 million dollars should you be taxed on that gain even though you played by the rules?

The question was never to tax your ROTH, only whether it was reasonable to place an upper limit on it. If you exceed the limit then you trigger a ROTH distribution which is not a taxable event.

 

[walkenvol]

Certainly not for marital status. Are we at the point yet where you can be legally married to your dog? Should guys be allowed to have a bunch of wives and separate tax brackets?

It’s also backwards that those with a lot of kids create a bigger financial drain on government than those without, but those without are required to “contribute” more in taxes.

Along this line of thought, why in the hell is there still a spousal benefit for social security? 2 guys work side by side for 40 years paying the same into SS. One guys wife never works outside the home and the other guys wife has a job and contributes to SS. The guy whose wife stayed at home draws 1.5 times as much as the guy whose wife earned her own SS benefit - that’s bs.

 

[walkenvol]

They don’t have records of their income?

Not a W-2 as was suggested

 

[walkenvol]

Thanks everyone for the interesting debate!

 

[C-south]

Not a W-2 as was suggested

1099, W-2,…whatever.

 

[Thunder Good-Oil]

I agree.

Problem is everybody doesn’t have the same type of income. A flat tax might work just on wages. It’s already happening with Medicare. The next logical step is to extend it to Social Security (and to end the narrative that it is NOT a tax). But business taxes are way more complicated. Starting with the form of the organization. Sole proprietorships, partnerships, LLCs, LLPs, Cs, Ss, 501s, etc.

Tax policy is useful to stimulate certain types of industries that are beneficial but not necessarily financially viable. I don’t see a problem with those things in the tax code. But I think that it is ridiculous though to punish success for no valid reason.

 

[Thunder Good-Oil]

And if a flat tax is put in place JUST FOR WAGES, how will foreigners working for US companies work or US citizens working for foreign entities? Are individual taxes just going to be applied to US workers working for US companies because a lot more businesses will be incorporating in the Cayman Islands with banking happening in Switzerland. And cheaters, like those paying illegals under the table, will have crypto payrolls.

 

[NEO]

Slavery was legal once as well. And so, in the eyes of the law beating your slaves wasn’t wrong. Again, just because it’s legal doesn’t mean it’s right. I’m not saying lock up billionaires. If you don’t the system is being lobbied and manipulated for the benefit of the uber elite, you’re kidding yourself.

Did you just compare tax laws to keeping people in shackles?

We are talking tax laws for retirement funding.

Context might help here.

Slavery had victims.

There was no victim here.

 

[SpaceCoastVol]

And if a flat tax is put in place JUST FOR WAGES, how will foreigners working for US companies work or US citizens working for foreign entities? Are individual taxes just going to be applied to US workers working for US companies because a lot more businesses will be incorporating in the Cayman Islands with banking happening in Switzerland. And cheaters, like those paying illegals under the table, will have crypto payrolls.

ding ding ding..


crypto. It's borderless, stateless and you have to look to see who has it.

 

[SpaceCoastVol]

Did you just compare tax laws to keeping people in shackles?

We are talking tax laws for retirement funding.

Context might help here.

Slavery had victims.

There was no victim here.

feelz.

 

[Thunder Good-Oil]

It’s pretty simple. Government has grown too big and is addicted to taking more and more in taxes. I’m surprised it’s been allowed to grow to this scale without a major revolt. Look at what happened when the Brits were just taxing tea.

The 61% paying zero need to start paying their fair share. Those expecting the 39% to pay even more need to be punched in the face.

 

[C-south]

It’s pretty simple. Government has grown too big and is addicted to taking more and more in taxes. I’m surprised it’s been allowed to grow to this scale without a major revolt. Look at what happened when the Brits were just taxing tea.

The 61% paying zero need to start paying their fair share. Those expecting the 39% to pay even more need to be punched in the face.

For many it’s just another form of welfare.

 

[volfanhill]

National sales tax. And only that. Not a VAT. Those with more money will spend more and be taxed more. No one escapes being taxed. No deductions.

 

[McDad]

Don’t worry about defeating me - figure out how you’re going to defeat Uncle Joe, Uncle Bernie, NP, and AOC as they’re going to be coming after our retirement accounts. Publicizing the billion dollar accounts is a smoke screen I think, the real money is in the millions of folks with 1-10 million in retirement accounts. Everyone with little to no retirement savings will be fine with them taking part of yours and mine. JMO

Not defeat you. Defeat your arguments. Big difference.

 

[McDad]

I don’t want to insult you, but there’s no way you can’t see how politics is heavily influenced by the most wealthy in our country. How else does Bezos not pay FIT?

I haven't seen his tax forms. I don't know whether he does or not. If he doesn't make an income from Amazon payroll, there is no income to tax.

 

[McDad]

“Starting point”.

“The Revenue Act of 1916 began the practice of adjusting tax rates and income scales. The original income tax was 1% for the bottom bracket, which was comprised of income up to $20,000, and 7% for the top bracket, which was comprised of income over $500,000.”

Thank you.

Proof positive why the premise of taxes, new taxes, special taxes, and tiered tax rates must be defeated at every opportunity. Once they hook you with the bait, they manipulate the terms from then on.