Bitcoin, Cryptocurrency, and the Future of Global Finance

[VolStrom]

So using a neutral bridge currency capped at 100 Billion assets which are deflationary to transfer trillions across borders will not set a value? Keep in mind this is only one of its use cases.

You do you, but crypto reminds me of the Internet bubble 20+ years ago when everything associated with the Internet was over valued. Seems to me, it will end up being the same thing with crypto.

 

[reecetn]

Cryptos have concocted valuations relative to other cryptos. Stocks, bonds, commodities, metals, national currencies, options, real estate, funds have valuations that relate back to something of tangible value.

The highlighted statement is where you derailed.

 

[reecetn]

You do you, but crypto reminds me of the Internet bubble 20+ years ago when everything associated with the Internet was over valued. Seems to me, it will end up being the same thing with crypto.

You are correct and the next Amazon will come out of this one. Good luck.

 

[Thunder Good-Oil]

You are correct and the next Amazon will come out of this one. Good luck.

Amazon has built a distribution network of warehouses, computer hardware and software fueling their global logistical systems across the planet. They generate revenue moving real goods. They have a highly profitable division that dominates web infrastructure. Bitcoin does …. ???

 

[AM64]

You do you, but crypto reminds me of the Internet bubble 20+ years ago when everything associated with the Internet was over valued. Seems to me, it will end up being the same thing with crypto.

I can't see that crypto is backed by anything tangible - just kinda floating out there on the air with no means of support except imagination. True that since currencies were floated they are similar, but they at least have governments supposedly backing them. Investment markets aren't really making that much sense now either. Companies seem to be backed more by stock prices, and stock prices have nothing to do with real corporate valuations. Some day 1929 and 2008 are going to seem tame - not betting it's that far away either. Feelings - nothing but feelings seem to be the rule of the day.

 

[reecetn]

I can't see that crypto is backed by anything tangible - just kinda floating out there on the air with no means of support except imagination. True that since currencies were floated they are similar, but they at least have governments supposedly backing them. Investment markets aren't really making that much sense now either. Companies seem to be backed more by stock prices, and stock prices have nothing to do with real corporate valuations. Some day 1929 and 2008 are going to seem tame - not betting it's that far away either. Feelings - nothing but feelings seem to be the rule of the day.

The new ISO 20022 standard begins in November. Get your popcorn and enjoy the show!!!!

I am glad you are back. I missed you.

 

[reecetn]

Amazon has built a distribution network of warehouses, computer hardware and software fueling their global logistical systems across the planet. They generate revenue moving real goods. They have a highly profitable division that dominates web infrastructure. Bitcoin does …. ???

And SWIFT handles the money used to buy all the goods including those.

 

[AM64]

The new ISO 20022 standard begins in November. Get your popcorn and enjoy the show!!!!

I am glad you are back. I missed you.

Thanks. I stay out of here normally because the concept of valuations based on something I can't see as tangible is downright confusing ... especially when there are so many believers. In engineering (and other sciences) we rely on fixed relationships - like inch to centimeter; it would all fall apart if we floated the standards or never developed real standards in the first place. Maybe crypto, unanchored currency, and investments related to intangibles actually make sense - just not to me. Market bubbles and collapses would seem to support that and serve as a warning, but apparently there are people in some super elevated orbit who see it differently.

 

[reecetn]

Thanks. I stay out of here normally because the concept of valuations based on something I can't see as tangible is downright confusing ... especially when there are so many believers. In engineering (and other sciences) we rely on fixed relationships - like inch to centimeter; it would all fall apart if we floated the standards or never developed real standards in the first place. Maybe crypto, unanchored currency, and investments related to intangibles actually make sense - just not to me. Market bubbles and collapses would seem to support that and serve as a warning, but apparently there are people in some super elevated orbit who see it differently.

A lot of indicators in many sectors point to big change beginning this fall. It will be a scary ride for sure.

 

[Thunder Good-Oil]

And SWIFT handles the money used to buy all the goods including those.

Citing SWIFT as a basis for crypto coin valuations is like saying LIBOR determines bond valuations or FINRA determines the valuation of Morgan-Stanley.

 

[reecetn]

Citing SWIFT as a basis for crypto coin valuations is like saying LIBOR determines bond valuations or FINRA determines the valuation of Morgan-Stanley.

So do you believe replacing the 27+ trillion in collateral dead money held in Central Bank Nostro Vostro accounts with an upgrade involving a neutral bridge currency valued at 0 is possible? I do not believe for one second JP Morgan would endorse that. How about You????

 

[reecetn]

If the SWIFT system could age like this we would have one less problem to solve!!!

 

[Thunder Good-Oil]

So do you believe replacing the 27+ trillion in collateral dead money held in Central Bank Nostro Vostro accounts with an upgrade involving a neutral bridge currency valued at 0 is possible? I do not believe for one second JP Morgan would endorse that. How about You????

Again, there is nothing to peg crypto valuations to other than other cryptos. Central banks facilitate money backed by their countries of origin. Countries have militaries, land, buildings, schools, investments, transportation infrastructure, states and municipalities, and such tangible and intangible assets to support their currencies. Bitcoin has… ??? And does Bitcoin have a monopoly or can thousands of competing cryptocurrencies be created out of thin air?

 

[reecetn]

Again, there is nothing to peg crypto valuations to other than other cryptos. Central banks facilitate money backed by their countries of origin. Countries have militaries, land, buildings, schools, investments, transportation infrastructure, states and municipalities, and such tangible and intangible assets to support their currencies. Bitcoin has… ??? And does Bitcoin have a monopoly or can thousands of competing cryptocurrencies be created out of thin air?

Again, beginning in November "Countries" will have the option of instant settlement without the 27+ trillion in collateral money to send their "currencies" across borders.


While the holders of the XRP Neutral Bridge Currency will have.............

 

[Thunder Good-Oil]

BlackRock has $10 trillion of AUM, but the market cap is around 1% of that. Apples and bananas.

It is a simple question that can’t be answered. What is the basis for establishing a valuation of a crypto currency other than some speculative, volatile amount relative to another crypto? Throwing a bunch of lingo gleaned from articles written by crypto bros pontificating on the technical aspects of the transactions isn’t a valid answer. There needs to be an economic case for them to have a reason to be a store of value and not simply pure speculation.

I can see high risk, short term swing trading to take profits from less than sophisticated sheep suffering from FOMO. I can see value in the picks and shovels (especially if there are going to be transaction fees of one or more percent). I can see citizens of **** countries like Venezuela converting their paychecks immediately to something else ASAP before out of control inflation destroys the value of their country’s currency relative to a first world country’s currency.

Many dot coms didn’t go to zero. They instead lost huge chunks of their market caps. The valuations just got 15-20 years ahead of what was reasonable for those companies that weren’t sock puppet scams.

 

[reecetn]

BlackRock has $10 trillion of AUM, but the market cap is around 1% of that. Apples and bananas.

It is a simple question that can’t be answered. What is the basis for establishing a valuation of a crypto currency other than some speculative, volatile amount relative to another crypto? Throwing a bunch of lingo gleaned from articles written by crypto bros pontificating on the technical aspects of the transactions isn’t a valid answer. There needs to be an economic case for them to have a reason to be a store of value and not simply pure speculation.

I can see high risk, short term swing trading to take profits from less than sophisticated sheep suffering from FOMO. I can see value in the picks and shovels (especially if there are going to be transaction fees of one or more percent). I can see citizens of **** countries like Venezuela converting their paychecks immediately to something else ASAP before out of control inflation destroys the value of their country’s currency relative to a first world country’s currency.

Many dot coms didn’t go to zero. They instead list huge chunks of their market caps. The valuations just got 15-20 years ahead of what was reasonable for those companies that weren’t sock puppet scams.

The new ISO 20022 standard begins in November. Get your popcorn and enjoy the show!!!!

I am glad you are back. I missed you.

So the article I linked was written by Crypto Bros???? HOLY HELL JP MORGAN CHASE has been confirmed, crypto bros. You heard it from @Thunder Good-Oil first

 

[DancingOutlaw]

Amazon has built a distribution network of warehouses, computer hardware and software fueling their global logistical systems across the planet. They generate revenue moving real goods. They have a highly profitable division that dominates web infrastructure. Bitcoin does …. ???

I remember buying Google in 2005 and a guy at work asked why you’d buy stock in a search engine.

 

[Thunder Good-Oil]

I remember buying Google in 2005 and a guy at work asked why you’d buy stock in a search engine.

And the Facebook IPO. A chat board.

 

[Thunder Good-Oil]

So the article I linked was written by Crypto Bros???? HOLY HELL JP MORGAN CHASE has been confirmed, crypto bros. You heard it from @Thunder Good-Oil first

Stop posting links that don’t answer the question and pretending that it does because it’s throws around some technical jargon.

WHAT IS A BASIS TO DETERMINE A FUNDAMENTAL VALUATION OF A CRYPTO CURRENCY? You aren’t able to provide an answer.

I listed 8 or 10 investment assets and gave reasons for valuations on each of them. Why is a Bitcoin valued at tens of thousands of dollars? Saying there is a finite supply of Bitcoin doesn’t mean much when the conversions to any other crypto currency (or governmental money) can be executed seamlessly and at a low transaction cost. Especially when some of the connected cryptos don’t have limits. The finite supply becomes infinite when thousands of different currencies can be thrown into the mix. It’s like the Fed creating money, only instead of devaluing the currency with inflation cryptos magically go up in value. It’s not sustainable. It may not happen in 2022. It may not happen in 2023. But at some point some crypto holders will be the bag holders.

 

[reecetn]

Stop posting links that don’t answer the question and pretending that it does because it’s throws around some technical jargon.

WHAT IS A BASIS TO DETERMINE A FUNDAMENTAL VALUATION OF A CRYPTO CURRENCY? You aren’t able to provide an answer.

I listed 8 or 10 investment assets and gave reasons for valuations on each of them. Why is a Bitcoin valued at tens of thousands of dollars? Saying there is a finite supply of Bitcoin doesn’t mean much when the conversions to any other crypto currency (or governmental money) can be executed seamlessly and at a low transaction cost. Especially when some of the connected cryptos don’t have limits. The finite supply becomes infinite when thousands of different currencies can be thrown into the mix. It’s like the Fed creating money, only instead of devaluing the currency with inflation cryptos magically go up in value. It’s not sustainable. It may not happen in 2022. It may not happen in 2023. But at some point some crypto holders will be the bag holders.

LOL!!!!!!

Why do you keep bringing up the ancient technology of Bitcoin to try to support your inaccurate analogies to the topic we were having about the actual real solution to the decades-old problem of cross-border banking settlements?

Bitcoin was flawed from inception and a few years later the said solutions to the Internet of value became a reality. By the way, internet of value was the goal from the beginning of the "Internet".

The journey of Distributed Ledger Technology was born in a 1988 patent by the current Ripple CTO David Schwartz. Yes, they really have been working on this that long which is why it has been accepted by a majority of the Central Banks and other Financial Institutions globally today.

Not one single fact that was clearly presented by the 6th largest bank in the world JP Morgan Chase pertaining to the new ISO 20022 financial system that will begin going live this November has ever been disputed in one of your rants.

Do you really not understand why the value of the asset XRP will be considerbly higher than it is now to facilitate the transactions described by the JP Morgan article?

 

[Thunder Good-Oil]

LOL!!!!!!

Why do you keep bringing up the ancient technology of Bitcoin to try to support your inaccurate analogies to the topic we were having about the actual real solution to the decades-old problem of cross-border banking settlements?

Bitcoin was flawed from inception and a few years later the said solutions to the Internet of value became a reality. By the way, internet of value was the goal from the beginning of the "Internet".

The journey of Distributed Ledger Technology was born in a 1988 patent by the current Ripple CTO David Schwartz. Yes, they really have been working on this that long which is why it has been accepted by a majority of the Central Banks and other Financial Institutions globally today.

Not one single fact that was clearly presented by the 6th largest bank in the world JP Morgan Chase pertaining to the new ISO 20022 financial system that will begin going live this November has ever been disputed in one of your rants.

Do you really not understand why the value of the asset XRP will be considerbly higher than it is now to facilitate the transactions described by the JP Morgan article?

You continue to dodge the question. Bitcoin is simply the biggest and most well known. Pick any of them and explain the basis for a valuation. How they are used is not a correct answer.

 

[reecetn]

You continue to dodge the question. Bitcoin is simply the biggest and most well known. Pick any of them and explain the basis for a valuation. How they are used is not a correct answer.

You continue to babble on about Bitcoin and compare it to the utility of Ripple and XRP, which is fine because being a troll is a choice that you can freely make.

The basis for valuation was clearly stated and the fact that you cannot grasp that is still irrelevant.

Finally how assets are used, which most would call utility is in fact a correct answer. I thought a stock boy would understand that.

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

Thanks. I stay out of here normally because the concept of valuations based on something I can't see as tangible is downright confusing ... especially when there are so many believers. In engineering (and other sciences) we rely on fixed relationships - like inch to centimeter; it would all fall apart if we floated the standards or never developed real standards in the first place. Maybe crypto, unanchored currency, and investments related to intangibles actually make sense - just not to me. Market bubbles and collapses would seem to support that and serve as a warning, but apparently there are people in some super elevated orbit who see it differently.

I just can't wrap my mind around the value in these cryptos being used as currency. I fully understand how block chain can be used in contracts or used to store data about individuals or businesses. But I haven't had one person convince me of how they can be used for currency... esp. when it comes to the latest drama regarding PayPal and the truckers. I keep hearing people say "cryptos will fix this", but I don't see how if the govts and these exchanges control the on ramps and off ramps.

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

So do you believe replacing the 27+ trillion in collateral dead money held in Central Bank Nostro Vostro accounts with an upgrade involving a neutral bridge currency valued at 0 is possible? I do not believe for one second JP Morgan would endorse that. How about You????

Jaime Dimon was the same guy just 4-5 years ago saying he would fire a trader that bought Bitcoin.

Jaime Dimon is no different than any other banking snake out here. He is a con man and Ponzi bubble pumper.

JP Morgan CEO Jamie Dimon: I’d Fire Trader “In a Second” for Trading Bitcoin

JPMorgan CEO Jamie Dimon says bitcoin is a ‘fraud’ that will eventually blow up

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

If the SWIFT system could age like this we would have one less problem to solve!!!

I'm all for getting rid of or bypassing SWIFT. But I'm not convinced cryptos are the answer.