Bitcoin, Cryptocurrency, and the Future of Global Finance

[reecetn]

Jaime Dimon was the same guy just 4-5 years ago saying he would fire a trader that bought Bitcoin.

Jaime Dimon is no different than any other banking snake out here. He is a con man and Ponzi bubble pumper.

JP Morgan CEO Jamie Dimon: I’d Fire Trader “In a Second” for Trading Bitcoin

JPMorgan CEO Jamie Dimon says bitcoin is a ‘fraud’ that will eventually blow up

Yes, he is a con man, but he is right about Bitcoin. At best Bitcoin was a diversion to what is really getting ready to be launched. And his institution is on board big time with the new SWIFT system that is going live at the end of this year.

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

It is a simple question that can’t be answered. What is the basis for establishing a valuation of a crypto currency other than some speculative, volatile amount relative to another crypto? Throwing a bunch of lingo gleaned from articles written by crypto bros pontificating on the technical aspects of the transactions isn’t a valid answer. There needs to be an economic case for them to have a reason to be a store of value and not simply pure speculation.

Hell, if there was a way to say X kilowatts = one Satoshi, then that might at least push it in the right direction.

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

Yes, he is a con man, but he is right about Bitcoin. At best Bitcoin was a diversion to what is really getting ready to be launched. And his institution is on board big time with the new SWIFT system that is going live at the end of this year.

Is this going to be like FedCoin or something? If Jaime Dimon is involved in it, it can't be good.

 

[reecetn]

Is this going to be like FedCoin or something? If Jaime Dimon is involved in it, it can't be good.

Fed Coin and Dimon are not involved, thank God.

 

[Thunder Good-Oil]

You continue to babble on about Bitcoin and compare it to the utility of Ripple and XRP, which is fine because being an idiot troll is a choice that you can freely make.

The basis for valuation was clearly stated and the fact that you cannot grasp that is still irrelevant.

Finally how assets are used, which most would call utility is in fact a correct answer. I thought a stock boy would understand that.

Having utility isn’t a BASIS for the valuation of an intangible asset like various cryptos. A US dollar isn’t worth what the international finance system determines it to be because there are pieces of paper with presidents faces printed on them in my wallet. The underlying basis is that there is a free country with laws and law enforcement backing the currency and that country is full of assets like roads and airports and defense systems and buildings and national parks and educational institutions and a platform to enable commerce among other things of value. The government collects revenue in the form of taxes from the businesses using the various systems to create goods and services. The flavor of the day crypto is backed by what? Since you think I’m stupid, lay it out in simple terms for me. I bet you’ll defect yet again.

 

[reecetn]

Having utility isn’t a BASIS for the valuation of an intangible asset like various cryptos. A US dollar isn’t worth what the international finance system determines it to be because there are pieces of paper with presidents faces printed on them in my wallet. The underlying basis is that there is a free country with laws and law enforcement backing the currency and that country is full of assets like roads and airports and defense systems and buildings and national parks and educational institutions and a platform to enable commerce among other things of value. The government collects revenue in the form of taxes from the businesses using the various systems to create goods and services. The flavor of the day crypto is backed by what? Since you think I’m stupid, lay it out in simple terms for me. I bet you’ll defect yet again.

LOL the dollar is not a finite supply. XRP not only is a finite supply, it is also deflationary. It will click for you soon, probably when it is too late. Don't fret you have lots of company!!!

 

[Thunder Good-Oil]

LOL the dollar is not a finite supply. XRP not only is a finite supply, it is also deflationary. It will click for you soon, probably when it is too late. Don't fret you have lots of company!!!

Macro economics prevent the supply of dollars from being infinite. Inflation becomes destructive when too many dollars are created. It rarely exceeds 10% and once above 5% political leaders start losing their seats because of it.

As long as any crypto can be freely exchanged for others without a finite supply, then that crypto currency in no longer finite and there is nothing in place to regulate the unlimited creation of alternatives.

WHAT IS THE BASIS FOR THE VALUATION OF CRYPTO CURRENCIES? You can’t answer that.

Explain to those of us not as smart as you why XRP is worth $0.77 and why it’s no longer trading at $3.40. A finite supply, it’s better than crypto ABC, and it can be used for transactions aren’t the correct answers.

 

[reecetn]

Macro economics prevent the supply of dollars from being infinite. Inflation becomes destructive when too many dollars are created. It rarely exceeds 10% and once above 5% political leaders start losing their seats because of it.

As long as any crypto can be freely exchanged for others without a finite supply, then that crypto currency in no longer finite and there is nothing in place to regulate the unlimited creation of alternatives.

WHAT IS THE BASIS FOR THE VALUATION OF CRYPTO CURRENCIES? You can’t answer that.

Explain to those of us not as smart as you why XRP is worth $0.77 and why it’s no longer trading at $3.40. A finite supply, it’s better than crypto ABC, and it can be used for transactions aren’t the correct answers.

Because the utility that you inaccurately claim is worthless has not kicked in. When it does, very soon all the holders and 100's of financial institutions that are participating will set the price. Basic supply and demand.

(if you can comprehend simple math, go figure out what the price would need to be to facilitate just the SWIFT transactions. HINT I bet it will be higher than the current .82 and ATH of 3.40)

BTW you should not buy any type of crypto. You would not make it past the KYC Anti-Money Laundering process without breaking your keyboard.


Good luck!!!

When time reveals all these mysteries you cannot wrap your head around we can talk again

 

[Thunder Good-Oil]

Because the utility that you inaccurately claim is worthless has not kicked in. When it does, very soon all the holders and 100's of financial institutions that are participating will set the price. Basic supply and demand.

(if you can comprehend simple math, go figure out what the price would need to be to facilitate just the SWIFT transactions. HINT I bet it will be higher than the current .82 and ATH of 3.40)

BTW you should not buy any type of crypto. You would not make it past the KYC Anti-Money Laundering process without breaking your keyboard.


Good luck!!!

When time reveals all these mysteries you cannot wrap your head around we can talk again

Now you are lying. I never claimed that utility is worthless. I’ve asked multiple times how a base valuation for a crypto currency can be determined and you reply with insults rather than answers.

 

[reecetn]

Now you are lying. I never claimed that utility is worthless. I’ve asked multiple times how a base valuation for a crypto currency can be determined and you reply with insults rather than answers.

And I answered with examples of utility which you ignored while babbling about other coins. Including Bitcoin, the perfect example of a $hitcoin with no utility. Stay distracted, you have lots of company!!!!!

Once again

Good luck!!!

When time reveals all these mysteries you cannot wrap your head around we can talk again

 

[Thunder Good-Oil]

And I answered with examples of utility which you ignored while babbling about other coins. Including Bitcoin, the perfect example of a $hitcoin with no utility. Stay distracted, you have lots of company!!!!!

Once again

Having utility still doesn’t explain what a base value should be pegged to. The Benjamin’s in my wallet have utility. The ink and paper doesn’t explain the value. The other investable assets that I listed have underlying value. Cryptos are created out of nothing. Putting them on distributed, electronic ledgers doesn’t create the initial, base value.

 

[reecetn]

Once again you insult rather than come up with a valid answer. I’m asking a simple question and not being a D nozzle while doing so.

Having utility still doesn’t explain what a base value should be pegged to. The Benjamin’s in my wallet have utility. The ink and paper doesn’t explain the value. The other investable assets that I listed have underlying value. Cryptos are created out of nothing. Putting them on distributed, electronic ledgers doesn’t create the initial, base value.

So you do understand that Benjamin's 100 dollar bills have utility.

AGAIN
There are currently 27+ trillion dollars worth of said Benjamin's sitting dormant in Central Bank Nostro Vostro accounts to overcome the downfall of the ancient messaging system we call SWIFT's inability to do instant settlements..


So how do you not understand how the neutral bridge currency XRP will be valued when it begins bridging currencies between central banks worldwide. What do you think will happen when said 27+ trillion dollars get loose in economies. I think we might have cured a liquidity crisis or two. How about you??????

Fun Fact: that is only one of the problems the XRP Ledger will solve.


Re-Read this thread the past couple of days SLLLLLLOOOOOOOOOWWWWWWWWWLLLLLLYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Thunder Good-Oil]

Cryptos lack true fundamentals to analyze. Coming up with fair valuations is a problem and was also a problem 5 years ago when cryptos were 10% of where they are today. Us dummies that aren’t pumping them and are missing the boat look at these things as bubbles.

 

[reecetn]

Cryptos lack true fundamentals to analyze. Coming up with fair valuations is a problem and was also a problem 5 years ago when cryptos were 10% of where they are today. Us dummies that aren’t pumping them and are missing the boat look at these things as bubbles.

Speaking of Bubbles. The mighty DJI has reached a full 4.236 extension from the 2008 crash. (See evidence below) Not much room before this bubble splatters!!!

I think congress knows that and is virtue signaling claiming to be doing the right thing while the truth is they are giving themselves a cover to sell said bubble!!

 

[DancingOutlaw]

Having utility isn’t a BASIS for the valuation of an intangible asset like various cryptos. A US dollar isn’t worth what the international finance system determines it to be because there are pieces of paper with presidents faces printed on them in my wallet. The underlying basis is that there is a free country with laws and law enforcement backing the currency and that country is full of assets like roads and airports and defense systems and buildings and national parks and educational institutions and a platform to enable commerce among other things of value. The government collects revenue in the form of taxes from the businesses using the various systems to create goods and services. The flavor of the day crypto is backed by what? Since you think I’m stupid, lay it out in simple terms for me. I bet you’ll defect yet again.

An item, currency, etc. has value because the market says it does. Why does paint thrown at canvas by a weirdo fetch millions of dollars? There is no basis for it, it has zero utility, the raw materials used are a few dozen bucks, yet its value is multiples higher. Crypto has investors that have bought into the idea of both the coins and the blockchain technology behind them. I would also venture that the majority of people who are invested in crypto don't have their life savings on the line. I have less than half a percent in it. If it moons that's great. If it drills to the core of the earth it wasn't that much to me to begin with.

Honestly I really don't think at this point in our countries existence we can point to the "assets" our country owns as solid backing for the dollar. They're not going to sell Mt. Rushmore to pay the Chinese or something.

 

[Thunder Good-Oil]

The DJIA isn’t a great measure since it is only 30 large stocks and it’s a price weighted index. But if you look at the S&P instead, there hasn’t been a 5 year annualized return greater than 20% in nearly 2 and a half decades. And those 500+ companies actually take material, labor, and overhead and make things. But watch out for THAT bubble?

 

[reecetn]

I wonder if this is a coincidence?

 

[Thunder Good-Oil]

An item, currency, etc. has value because the market says it does. Why does paint thrown at canvas by a weirdo fetch millions of dollars? There is no basis for it, it has zero utility, the raw materials used are a few dozen bucks, yet its value is multiples higher. Crypto has investors that have bought into the idea of both the coins and the blockchain technology behind them. I would also venture that the majority of people who are invested in crypto don't have their life savings on the line. I have less than half a percent in it. If it moons that's great. If it drills to the core of the earth it wasn't that much to me to begin with.

Honestly I really don't think at this point in our countries existence we can point to the "assets" our country owns as solid backing for the dollar. They're not going to sell Mt. Rushmore to pay the Chinese or something.

The assets like the transportation system facilitate commerce AND THEN the country has a revenue stream in the form of income taxes as a result.

I never said that rare art is reasonably valued. Or fancy bottles of wine. Or cool automobiles. But those things can’t be duplicated. Hence supply/demand is in play and sellers and bidders haggle over truly unique items that can only be recreated in finite numbers over long times frames and were created by a limited supply of extremely talented artists or production runs and harvests. There doesn’t seem to be the same barriers to entry for crypto currencies.

 

[Thunder Good-Oil]

There are now over 10,000 crypto currencies. There’s one Mona Lisa and one Starry Night. There are several thousand 1953 Corvettes, but that number slowly decreases and never increases.

 

[reecetn]

The DJIA isn’t a great measure since it is only 30 large stocks and it’s a price weighted index. But if you look at the S&P instead, there hasn’t been a 5 year annualized return greater than 20% in nearly 2 and a half decades. And those 500+ companies actually take material, labor, and overhead and make things. But watch out for THAT bubble?

What percent do you think the ones who bought the $hitcoin BTC at 3k a couple of years ago received when they sold in November and then capitulated that into the utility coins?

The S&P bubble actually looks worse...

 

[reecetn]

You want to see an asset with a lot of runway......

 

[Thunder Good-Oil]

What percent do you think the ones who bought the $hitcoin BTC at 3k a couple of years ago received when they sold in November and then capitulated that into the utility coins?

The S&P bubble actually looks worse...

View attachment 433963

The equity of companies creating products has been traded on Wall Street for over 200 years.

 

[reecetn]

The equity of companies creating products has been traded on Wall Street for over 200 years.

Do not worry, When the Stock bubble bursts a lot of the stable coins sitting on the sidelines from last year's sale of BTC and other various coins will buy that wholesale stock.

 

[DancingOutlaw]

The assets like the transportation system facilitate commerce AND THEN the country has a revenue stream in the form of income taxes as a result.

I never said that rare art is reasonably valued. Or fancy bottles of wine. Or cool automobiles. But those things can’t be duplicated. Hence supply/demand is in play and sellers and bidders haggle over truly unique items that can only be recreated in finite numbers over long times frames and were created by a limited supply of extremely talented artists or production runs and harvests. There doesn’t seem to be the same barriers to entry for crypto currencies.

Lots of industries have low barriers. So we get tons of competitors. And the market sorts it out. Crypto will undergo massive consolidations like any other emerging industry along with plenty of failures. That doesn't mean it's a scam. Twenty five years ago there were plenty of people who said the average consumer would never buy anything from cyberspace and dot com businesses were all a sham.

 

[Thunder Good-Oil]

Lots of industries have low barriers. So we get tons of competitors. And the market sorts it out. Crypto will undergo massive consolidations like any other emerging industry along with plenty of failures. That doesn't mean it's a scam. Twenty five years ago there were plenty of people who said the average consumer would never buy anything from cyberspace and dot com businesses were all a sham.

I never said crypto is a scam. I have no doubt however that many of the 10,000+ varieties of coins are.

I’m asking a simple question. What are the fundamentals that can be used to determine a fair basic value of the multitude of cryptos? Why should a Bitcoin be worth $4,000 5 years ago? Why not $40? A capped number of coins helps, but it is nullified if capped coins can efficiently be exchanged for any other coin. Facilitating transactions makes some worth more relative to others, but where is a case for a starting point?

I never said don’t touch the space. I even posted that 1% or a little more isn’t an unreasonable spot for risk assets. At least with the pick and shovel equities they currently can get a fee.

I don’t know why the DJIA was even thrown into the discussion. Those 30 companies have real assets and generate real revenue.