Breakdown tn vs kentucky (merged)

Dude.... you are reinventing the discussion.

The ENTIRE POINT OF THE DISCUSSION was never that something was going to be easy to correct. YOU brought that stuff into it with your first reply to me.

The ENTIRE POINT was that UT's full court press was not going to be any more effective at creating TO's against UK as it would be against any other team.

The point was that UK doesn't get the ball stolen from the press....they give it to you in half court. The distinction is ENTIRELY relevant to the context of the discussion.... U just don't understand it.

Good lord man, you are super thick.

mm


hey dense-y, where did I mention the press? Did my initial post not speak of how the TOs were irrelevent entirely? Did your rebuttal not indicate that 'things were improving" and that "just a little" change from the wings would correct things? Ill save us time: it did.

That's called WHEN THE CONVERSATION CHANGES(sorry, I hate using caps, but sometimes, ya know, you have to).

Kentucky sucks at protecting the ball, they will not get noticeably better at it, and their TOs will depend entirely on the effectiveness of the team they are facing, which is not--I stress: is NOT--the case with other teams.

this renders your initial indication of them just having to do a few things a bit better wrong.

Good. Lord. Man.

/fin
 
And here is the difference between us. You look at Kenpom and box scores only.... I watch games like this....(free account may be needed, not sure)

Auburn UK game breakdown

mm

I DID THE ENITIRE GAME, BUT IT IS WAY TOO BIG TO POST, SO HERE IS JUST A PART OF IT......

1905 – on out of bounds play, Auburn zone and for some really dumb reason has Meeks guy on centerline. PPat gets inbounds and immediately gets doubled from high guard in the corner (why double him so far out?)passes over zone for wide open 3 for Jodie as baseline wing guy is late rotating help. Horrible scouting or execution from Auburn.

1842 - #1 sets “flat” screen at top of key for PG on Harris. Harris does great job moving feet and Porter shows help to get PG tos pull out. Pass to 24 who takes long shot. Long rebound goes to 21. These guys are good at long boards.

1828 – PS closes out on 21 without shuffling his feet, so he’s off balance as 21 drives for pull up J with PS trying to recover. Harris may have been able to help a big more….

1822 – Porter throws pass to wing and 24 jumps the lane leaving Ramon free to make awkward drive to hoop. Harris gets foul. Hits both with 1818 left

1808 – Porter defends Reed as good as you can but he pulls up and hits 3 with hand in his face. Notice that Patterson did NOT come out to help on that screen. BCG seems to not want to help screens that K Barber sets.

1759 – Porter leaves his feet during doubleteam and throws pass to Patterson who was planting as pass went wide. Ball is backcourt TO.

1750 – Barber sets an obvious moving pick that frees up Rasheem Barrett for a 17 footer which misses and PPat gets board. Once again, PPat does not hedge a Barber screen and seemingly prefers to force the outside shot rather than leave Barber open to slip to the lane for dunk. I agree with this given Auburn’s poor shooters.

1745 – Bad transition D as Porter finds Meeks open for a 3 which he nails. Auburn players were jogging back and therefore were not able to help had Meeks shot faked and drove to the hoop. This caused Tay Waller to have to slack off just enough to guard the drive and give Meeks the sliver he needed for a good look.

1734 – Barber again sets a ball screen that UK does not hedge. Reed gets a half step on Porter, who recovers well, but Stevenson fouls for whatever reason. Reed hits first, misses second.

1720 – This is a CLASSIC “screen the screener” play to get Meeks open. PPat rotates ball to Porter from left to right. Meeks then goes from left wing baseline area to right side free throw line and sets a downscreen for Patterson to then cut to the rim. Once Ppat clears the screen, Porter fakes a pass to PPat to freeze the D, Stevenson sets a back screen on the player Meeks screened off of Patterson and Meeks curls to top of the key for an open pass from Porter (too bad he fumbled the pass cause it was a great play). After two single perimeter screens by Porter and PS for Meeks, Harris just enters the ball into PPat and he does his thing for 2 points over Barber.

1655 – At this point, it is obvious that Auburn is going to take advantage of Perry Stevenson’s inability to close out on Barrett. Not sure why PS is even closing so far out on a 23% shooter from 3 point range who only gets 7 points in 19 minutes….and who has the lowest points per shot of any player likely to see the court. Either way, PS was really lazy on that one which gave Barrett space to jump stop to a fade away which he hit over PPat and a recovered PS. Not an easy shot and was well defended despite close out error.

1649 – after made pass, Auburn looks to set up full court but once Porter passes quickly ahead to a front court Meeks, Auburn STILL is barely running the floor. Really bad effort by Auburn and BCG would be throwing a fit.

1640 - Harrison in post to PS who shuffles feet while making baseline move for a TO. I can live with that sort of TO.

(Could also be mentioned that this is the third time in a row that Auburn has doubled the post with the guy who was guarding the passer. If Meeks enters the ball to PPat from the wing, Auburn may very well double with Meeks guy and leave Jodie wide open for the inside out 3 pointer, which is his best shot.)

1629 – Barrett sets high ball screen on Porter to open up Reed. (Perry actually hedges this screen, as opposed to Patterson NOT hedging Barber’s screens. Not sure if this is cause of Barrett being the screener, Stevenson being the Hedger, or Reed being such a good shooter. Will try to figure out what BCG is doing). Perry’s hedge allows Porter to recover and Reed takes an off balance long 2 which is an airball.

(Auburn still isn’t running hard. I suspect if Liggins enters the game he will tear them up in transition)

1620 – Ppat sets downscreen for Porter and then rolls into a post up position. Porter rotates to Harris on the wing who should feed PPat who has his man sealed. Robertson’s Ball pressure is good on Harris and Harris’s pass is kicked by Robertson and out of bounds.

1610 – on inbounds, Porter throws in to Ppat on left baseline corner. As Porter enters the court heading away from PPat under the rim, Patterson puts the ball on the floor against a weak defensive effort by Reed and misses a 7 footer while Barber stares at him….Barber nor Reed block out as PPat follows for the putback. Obviously, PPat is still struggling with his finger.

1557 – Barber sets a screen on Porter to free up Reed….PPat does NOT hedge. It is now obvious that BCG is not going to have PPat help on any ballscreen regardless of who is getting the screen (Reed is Auburn’s 2nd best shooter)…. A few seconds later, Auburn feeds Barber in the post who misses a bad left handed hook but rebounds and puts it back in. During this battle, Perry S was in great position to help and was actually touching Barber the entire time following the miss, but did not leave his feet at all. That is not excusable.

1541 – Barber punches the ball out on a Harris drive in transition and Robertson goes the other way. Meeks runs 85% and settles for an attempted back tip, Stevenson runs 50% in hopes of a block from behind when he EASILY could have been in position (had 15 feet on Robertson at start of play) and Porter set up his attempted charge too deep. Had he stopped and made Robertson change direction farther out, Stevenson would have been back despite his lazy run. 3 mistakes in transition D lead to 2 points for Robertson.
 
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at what point have I EVER said stats are useless. I'm a basketball scout for a living and use stats all the time. The problem is that you don't know anything BUT stats.

mm

Sorry kid, I havent seen anything from ya at all that indicated any knowledge outside of "BUT I WATCH GAMES!!!! U MORON! DEAR LORD OUR SAVIOUR OMG!"

This is a conversation ABOUT stats, that BECAME about them because they were used and trampled on.

And I liked that you used the stats, it's the best thing I've seen you write thus far. I don't think that bigpapa guy liked them though. Or if he did, well, that indicates something. :peace2:
 
hey dense-y, where did I mention the press? Did my initial post not speak of how the TOs were irrelevent entirely? Did your rebuttal not indicate that 'things were improving" and that "just a little" change from the wings would correct things? Ill save us time: it did.

That's called WHEN THE CONVERSATION CHANGES(sorry, I hate using caps, but sometimes, ya know, you have to).

Kentucky sucks at protecting the ball, they will not get noticeably better at it, and their TOs will depend entirely on the effectiveness of the team they are facing, which is not--I stress: is NOT--the case with other teams.

this renders your initial indication of them just having to do a few things a bit better wrong.

Good. Lord. Man.

/fin

You can try to claim that was the context all you want, but it wasn't.... and every person reading this knows it.... and even as a UK fan, they are agreeing with me.

And teams that are good at forcing TO's force ALL the teams they play into more TO's than they normally give up.... you are as foolish as they come.

mm
 
And here is the difference between us. You look at Kenpom and box scores only.... I watch games like this....(free account may be needed, not sure)

Auburn UK game breakdown

mm

guy, I've done game-tracking for FO, I know the improtance of it and how it can help develop even further insights for a) a casual fan, and b) someone who can apply the knowledge with effectiveness, and actual REAL application. We're not arguing that.

We're talking about the irrelevance of self-induced TOs vs non-self-induced, and how stats show just that: their irrelevancy.
 
You can try to claim that was the context all you want, but it wasn't.... and every person reading this knows it.... and even as a UK fan, they are agreeing with me.

And teams that are good at forcing TO's force ALL the teams they play into more TO's than they normally give up.... you are as foolish as they come.

mm

The fact that you think people on this board are so dumb that they would just agree with someone because they like the vols says a lot about how much respect you have for them. Yyyouch.

And I dunno, I guess if you're that thick at reading, then sure, you probably didnt see how that was the conversation's point. Looks like you gave the conversation as much respect as you give these posters.
 
Sorry kid, I havent seen anything from ya at all that indicated any knowledge outside of "BUT I WATCH GAMES!!!! U MORON! DEAR LORD OUR SAVIOUR OMG!"

This is a conversation ABOUT stats, that BECAME about them because they were used and trampled on.

Well I certainly don't suppose colleges would pay me for my opinion if I didn't know anything about basketball, now would they.....even one you are fond of...

courier-journal.com | Eric Crawford | The Courier-Journal

Pearl was mingling with fans, even a group of UK fans, spent five minutes talking to a man who has a new restaurant in Knoxville, was patient when Marc Maggard approached him and tried to sell him on a point guard somewhere or other, then spoke again to Pat



And again, stats don't begin to show what this discussion has always been about.....which is why you constantly try to change the discussion....

mm
 
We're talking about the irrelevance of self-induced TOs vs non-self-induced, and how stats show just that: their irrelevancy.

Which is why you are an effin :crazy: person.

If you don't think unforced TO's vs being able to steal the ball is relevant to a discussion about a full court press, then I don't know what else to tell ya.

Even the most casual fan can watch UK and be amazed at how a team that good can cough up the ball so often in such a ridiculous manner... problem is, you haven't seen any games.

mm
 
Well I certainly don't suppose colleges would pay me for my opinion if I didn't know anything about basketball, now would they.....even one you are fond of...

courier-journal.com | Eric Crawford | The Courier-Journal

Pearl was mingling with fans, even a group of UK fans, spent five minutes talking to a man who has a new restaurant in Knoxville, was patient when Marc Maggard approached him and tried to sell him on a point guard somewhere or other, then spoke again to Pat



And again, stats don't begin to show what this discussion has always been about.....which is why you constantly try to change the discussion....

mm

Colleges pay people all the time for bad opinions, how do you not know this? Isn't that your profession? Weird.

We're just bashing heads now, it's boring, it really should be simple for anyone with a brain to see how the conversation went, but alas we see differently on that. Big whoop.

I'll stand behind anything i said here, as will you. Yawn.
 
How about we combine Lid's stats with UK MI the moron's 4 TVs. Good Lord. We're talking Google for hoops.
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Which is why you are an effin :crazy: person.

If you don't think unforced TO's vs being able to steal the ball is relevant to a discussion about a full court press, then I don't know what else to tell ya.

Even the most casual fan can watch UK and be amazed at how a team that good can cough up the ball so often in such a ridiculous manner... problem is, you haven't seen any games.

mm

final point, for the billionth time: it does NOT matter. AT ALL. and won't.
 
final point, for the billionth time: it does NOT matter. AT ALL. and won't.

I'd love to be a fly on the wall as you tell a college coach that Louisville won't force his team into any more TO's than normal.....

haha.... that would be priceless.

mm
 
haha, didnt check out mm's stats on that page huh? More than I've ever wrote.

I don't think any of the giants of Statistical Process Control, even Demming himself, would argue for stats as hard as you. So I'm going with the Pomeroy disciple.
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