Butch Jones embraces team chaplain Tim Miller

Why should I?

The Bible teaches a view of the world. And sorry, this will take some "words" to answer that question.

Every story invented to explain metaphysics... the nature of reality answers four basic questions: Where did we come from? Why are we here? What is morality? And what happens at the end?

Materialism is well expressed by Sagan. "The universe is all there is, was, or ever will be". But how does that view really do with any of the other questions or even ultimately the origin of everything? Is logic not real? Your mind? Those are immaterial things.

Spiritualism teaches that all that exists is "mind". A very simplistic way o explaining it would be that we're all part of a god-mind... that's having a dream.

Supernaturalism says that both the immaterial and material are real and part of the same reality.

Logic teaches that every effect has a cause ultimately greater/more powerful than itself. So what started it all? Spiritualism says that there is no beginning. Materialism says there is a beginning... but has no cause for that beginning. Supernaturalism says there was a beginning and an eternal God was the cause of it.

One view denies cause/effect logic applies. One ignores a cause/effect failure. The last one... provides an intelligent cause for the "effect".

God- God created. God owns. God has a right to judge. God's character includes infinite love. We instinctively understand that a song writer, inventor, sculptor, craftsman, etc has a "right" to what they create... even to destroy it if it displeases them. God has that right as well.

Man- Man was created in God's image. Not necessarily physical... but as a free moral agent. God created someone who could choose to love and obey Him or hate and rebel against Him. God granted man a will. Man chose to rebel against God in large measure because he wanted to be equal to God... to put his opinions and will on par with God's. Romans 5 explains how Adam represented us just as our own willful choices now represent us.

Jesus- God was not satisfied to simply destroy mankind who He loved but His justice would not allow Him to ignore man's rebellion. So He took on flesh Himself and began a rescue mission. His desire again from Romans 5 was to make His enemies His friends again... and He was willing to suffer the pain of man's curse to do it. Every other religion in the world including some that go under the label of "Christian" teach that man must work to ascend to or become God. Only NT Christianity teaches that man was so helpless in his attempts to be morally good enough that God condescended to man... and even submitted to die at the hands of wicked false accusers to pay for man's real guilt.

The Cross- The Cross is where God in flesh satisfied the price for the sins of those would simply accept His sacrifice on their behalf and then repent to follow Him. In the providence of God, the Romans did something interesting when they executed someone. They posted the charges against the criminal and then wrote on the death warrant a word roughly pronounced "testelati"... which simple meant "debt has been paid." That was Jesus' last recorded words before dying. The price has been paid.

Resurrection- The Bible teaches that everyone will be resurrected. Everyone will be judged. Christ's righteousness is imputed to the believer. Their sins are no less bad than unbelievers. They're no more worthy of reward. But their debt has been paid... and they've claimed that payment. Those who did not accept Christ's offer will face God on their own merits. They will face the same charge that Jesus faced- sedition... rebellion against man's rightful sovereign.



There's a lot more meat to put on those bones. But that's a start.
 
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armchair, it's real simple. choose. you got a ball game and people start praying, don't pray. jerry fallwell is on the TV, turn the channel (i do that when Bill Mahr is on, just switch it...i've found it very successful way to not have to be inundated with ideas and beliefs i don't share or agree with). no one makes you do anything, in public or otherwise. that's a "you" issue, not a "they" issue.

to me, it simply sounds like you go looking for ways to be offended. and you're successful at it. like this thread....the title included the word chaplain.

skip it. no one made read one single post here. you chose to.

only you can fix that.

Alright so if at ball games they prayed to Buddha you don't think Christians would make a huge fuss over it? Surely you don't believe that. Just don't pray Buddha with them right? It's okay then.
 
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no, it's a political agenda for him.

Catholic and christian companies not covering contraceptive care? really?

sounds like he needs to quit his job, or go purchase some supplemental insurance then. cause i had no idea this was such an issue.:blink:

Atheism is a religious pov.

IIRC, O'Hare's attorney's successfully argued that atheism was a religious pov protected by the 1st Amendment when they stopped prayer in school.

Unfortunately, Christian legal advocates have not tried to use that fact to prohibit atheistic views from being advanced in public schools.


FWIW, this is why I am for vouchers or some other means of allowing parents to freely choose the worldview (religious or otherwise) that undergirds their child's education. I do not want prayer in public schools... nor do I want armchair's "aggressive" indoctrination of children into secular or atheistic worldviews.
 
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Alright so if at ball games they prayed to Buddha you don't think Christians would make a huge fuss over it? Surely you don't believe that. Just don't pray Buddha with them right? It's okay then.

Get gov't out of public education. That would be consistent with the actual ideals of the 1st Amendment. When that bill was passed, almost all education was performed by the clergy in churches or public school buildings and was religious in nature according to de Toqueville. They rejected "government" in public schools... not the worldviews of free people.
 
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Alright so if at ball games they prayed to Buddha you don't think Christians would make a huge fuss over it? Surely you don't believe that. Just don't pray Buddha with them right? It's okay then.

that's what i would say to the christian that was offended, yes.

they aren't being forced to pray to buddha in that example either.

freedom of religion is freedom of religion.
 
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Atheism is a religious pov.

IIRC, O'Hare's attorney's successfully argued that atheism was a religious pov protected by the 1st Amendment when they stopped prayer in school.

Unfortunately, Christian legal advocates have not tried to use that fact to prohibit atheistic views from being advanced in public schools.


FWIW, this is why I am for vouchers or some other means of allowing parents to freely choose the worldview (religious or otherwise) that undergirds their child's education. I do not want prayer in public schools... nor do I want armchair's "aggressive" indoctrination of children into secular or atheistic worldviews.
it's all managing by the exception. the squeaky wheel gets the grease.

i have zero patience for any of it. i raise my kids, my way, and i would advise anyone that's put out by anything going on in their child's schools to either home school, or RAISE your kids to think for themselves.

too many victims. too many people wanting to be spoon fed. too many people thinking someone else should fixe their perceived problems.

and i'm the one that's weak minded for having faith.

blah.
 
The Bible teaches a view of the world. And sorry, this will take some "words" to answer that question.

Every story invented to explain metaphysics... the nature of reality answers four basic questions: Where did we come from? Why are we here? What is morality? And what happens at the end?

Materialism is well expressed by Sagan. "The universe is all there is, was, or ever will be". But how does that view really do with any of the other questions or even ultimately the origin of everything? Is logic not real? Your mind? Those are immaterial things.

Spiritualism teaches that all that exists is "mind". A very simplistic way o explaining it would be that we're all part of a god-mind... that's having a dream.

Supernaturalism says that both the immaterial and material are real and part of the same reality.

Logic teaches that every effect has a cause ultimately greater/more powerful than itself. So what started it all? Spiritualism says that there is no beginning. Materialism says there is a beginning... but has no cause for that beginning. Supernaturalism says there was a beginning and an eternal God was the cause of it.

One view denies cause/effect logic applies. One ignores a cause/effect failure. The last one... provides an intelligent cause for the "effect".

God- God created. God owns. God has a right to judge. God's character includes infinite love. We instinctively understand that a song writer, inventor, sculptor, craftsman, etc has a "right" to what they create... even to destroy it if it displeases them. God has that right as well.

Man- Man was created in God's image. Not necessarily physical... but as a free moral agent. God created someone who could choose to love and obey Him or hate and rebel against Him. God granted man a will. Man chose to rebel against God in large measure because he wanted to be equal to God... to put his opinions and will on par with God's. Romans 5 explains how Adam represented us just as our own willful choices now represent us.

Jesus- God was not satisfied to simply destroy mankind who He loved but His justice would not allow Him to ignore man's rebellion. So He took on flesh Himself and began a rescue mission. His desire again from Romans 5 was to make His enemies His friends again... and He was willing to suffer the pain of man's curse to do it. Every other religion in the world including some that go under the label of "Christian" teach that man must work to ascend to or become God. Only NT Christianity teaches that man was so helpless in his attempts to be morally good enough that God condescended to man... and even submitted to die at the hands of wicked false accusers to pay for man's real guilt.

The Cross- The Cross is where God in flesh satisfied the price for the sins of those would simply accept His sacrifice on their behalf and then repent to follow Him. In the providence of God, the Romans did something interesting when they executed someone. They posted the charges against the criminal and then wrote on the death warrant a word roughly pronounced "testelati"... which simple meant "debt has been paid." That was Jesus' last recorded words before dying. The price has been paid.

Resurrection- The Bible teaches that everyone will be resurrected. Everyone will be judged. Christ's righteousness is imputed to the believer. Their sins are no less bad than unbelievers. They're no more worthy of reward. But their debt has been paid... and they've claimed that payment. Those who did not accept Christ's offer will face God on their own merits. They will face the same charge that Jesus faced- sedition... rebellion against man's rightful sovereign.



There's a lot more meat to put on those bones. But that's a start.

None of that does a thing for me. No offense but in my opinion the Bible is a book written and thought up by a man. Like you and me. No different than a fairytale. If it helps you sleep at night to abide to what that book says I am happy for you. I sleep well knowing that I live my life in a beneficial way for my friends, family and myself. I don't need a book to tell me how to do that.
 
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I wouldn't.

And prayer at ball games doesn't bother me. Doesn't mean praying to another religion wouldn't irritate a good amount of Christians. It would, just like some atheists are annoyed by prayer at games in general. Me personally it has no effect on me I just stand there with my eyes open etc doesn't hurt me in any way. Not everyone is like me and you though
 
The Bible teaches a view of the world. And sorry, this will take some "words" to answer that question.

Every story invented to explain metaphysics... the nature of reality answers four basic questions: Where did we come from? Why are we here? What is morality? And what happens at the end?

Materialism is well expressed by Sagan. "The universe is all there is, was, or ever will be". But how does that view really do with any of the other questions or even ultimately the origin of everything? Is logic not real? Your mind? Those are immaterial things.

Spiritualism teaches that all that exists is "mind". A very simplistic way o explaining it would be that we're all part of a god-mind... that's having a dream.

Supernaturalism says that both the immaterial and material are real and part of the same reality.

Logic teaches that every effect has a cause ultimately greater/more powerful than itself. So what started it all? Spiritualism says that there is no beginning. Materialism says there is a beginning... but has no cause for that beginning. Supernaturalism says there was a beginning and an eternal God was the cause of it.

One view denies cause/effect logic applies. One ignores a cause/effect failure. The last one... provides an intelligent cause for the "effect".

Ideas are a product of the material, the mind is a product of the material. Quantum physics shows us it is commonplace for things jump in and out of existence so it need not be supernaturalism. Some of your definitions sre a little off.
 
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FYI I get the whole faith thing but you can have faith in absolutely anything you want and that doesn't make it true. However I respect everyone's beliefs and have no interest in forcing mine on anyone. Personally faith doesn't do a thing for me and honestly it isn't my fault. My brain won't allow me to believe in something that I don't find logical. It just won't, I can't do it. I'm not going to act like I have the answers of how we got here bc I don't, I'm just glad I am here in general and I couldn't care less how I got here. But faith for me personally is useless, if it doesn't make sense to me it doesn't make sense
 
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And prayer at ball games doesn't bother me. Doesn't mean praying to another religion wouldn't irritate a good amount of Christians. It would, just like some atheists are annoyed by prayer at games in general. Me personally it has no effect on me I just stand there with my eyes open etc doesn't hurt me in any way. Not everyone is like me and you though

oh i'm sure there's a minority of people that in a situation like that would grab a sign and start marching.

but, they're no different than the ones that grab a sign and start marching because of the pledge of allegiance.

single minded, narrow view, only care about making others do what they see as "right".

these people are all the same, though, you know? they're all wired the same. they just happen to live at opposite ends of the spectrum from one another.
 
oh i'm sure there's a minority of people that in a situation like that would grab a sign and start marching.

but, they're no different than the ones that grab a sign and start marching because of the pledge of allegiance.

single minded, narrow view, only care about making others do what they see as "right".

these people are all the same, though, you know? they're all wired the same. they just happen to live at opposite ends of the spectrum from one another.
I agree. I personally think everyone should let people do whatever they're doing as long as it isn't physically hurting anyone. Just let people believe what they want, etc.
 
I know how this must "sound" but I'm a simple mind.

I can only image what the world would be like if everyone tried thier best to live as close to the way the bible instructed as possible.

I also can imagine what the world would be like if there were no bible and no such thing as God.

I think the "moral compass is broken" comments are silly. I forget the Oklahoma players name that hit the girl but, do you think his moral compass is broken? Yea, I do. So do you just dismiss his actions because of it? Don't you think he could benefit from a program that had a "Tim Miller" involved in it? I do.
 
I know how this must "sound" but I'm a simple mind.

I can only image what the world would be like if everyone tried thier best to live as close to the way the bible instructed as possible.

I also can imagine what the world would be like if there were no bible and no such thing as God.

I think the "moral compass is broken" comments are silly. I forget the Oklahoma players name that hit the girl but, do you think his moral compass is broken? Yea, I do. So do you just dismiss his actions because of it? Don't you think he could benefit from a program that had a "Tim Miller" involved in it? I do. I really don't understand some of you guys.

that reminds me...
 
Originally Posted by volfan102455 View Post
I suspect if the article was written with references related to Mr. Miller's faith and church removed and focused only on the positive culture he had instilled without calling attention to the fact that he is a Christian - those of you who are offended would not be so.

The key message is that a good man takes the time to reach out to young college students in a time when their life could go in many different directions. And we have a coaching staff who cares enough about those young men to understand the importance of that.

Those of you who have any problem with this because of someone's faith need to get over yourself.

time for this again.
 
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I know how this must "sound" but I'm a simple mind.

I can only image what the world would be like if everyone tried thier best to live as close to the way the bible instructed as possible.

I also can imagine what the world would be like if there were no bible and no such thing as God.

I think the "moral compass is broken" comments are silly. I forget the Oklahoma players name that hit the girl but, do you think his moral compass is broken? Yea, I do. So do you just dismiss his actions because of it? Don't you think he could benefit from a program that had a "Tim Miller" involved in it? I do.

I actually think the world would be a better place without religion. Crime happens now with religion, and if you don't do anything crime related just bc of a book then are you really a good person if it's just for your afterlife? Not to mention all the wars that were religion based. Or the Radical Islam whackos trying to kill everyone bc their religion says kill those who believe differently. Just my opinion of course
 
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A book written and thought up by a man?

For all the prophecies hundreds of years apart to be fulfilled in Christ, that must have been some man, right?

Hardly.

Holy prophets and apostles called by God were under the power and inspiration of the Holy Spirit's words to be recorded as scripture, words spoken to and through them by God Himself. They were only human vessels obediently surrendered to the will and purposes of God as the Spirit of Truth used their bodies as instruments of God to record His word for man.

That's not just my opinion because it's not up for opinion or private interpretation. That's the authoritative word of God on the matter as He wrote very plainly about it in the scriptures Himself so that there could be no confusion:


2 Peter 1:20-21

20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.

21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

And more on it here:

2 Timothy 3:16-17

16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

17 That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.


The Lord has provided the answers in His word. Forming one's "own opinion" about the origin of scripture when the author Himself already clearly explained the process and that it's not open to private interpretation or opinions would be a grave error.
 
A book written and thought up by a man?

For all the prophecies hundreds of years apart to be fulfilled in Christ, that must have been some man, right?

Hardly.

Holy prophets and apostles called by God were under the power and inspiration of the Holy Spirit's words to be recorded as scripture, words spoken to and through them by God Himself. They were only human vessels obediently surrendered to the will and purposes of God as the Spirit of Truth used their bodies as instruments of God to record His word for man.

That's not just my opinion because it's not up for opinion or private interpretation. That's the authoritative word of God on the matter as He wrote very plainly about it in the scriptures Himself so that there could be no confusion:


2 Peter 1:20-21

20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.

21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

And more on it here:

2 Timothy 3:16-17

16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

17 That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.


The Lord has provided the answers in His word. Forming one's "own opinion" about the origin of scripture when the author Himself already clearly explained the process and that it's not open to private interpretation or opinions would be a grave error.
i think i've made it fairly clear where i stand on this matter, but....at the risk of sound like i've gone to the other side....this is where it loses me.

it's like when your dad would tell you "because i said so, that's why".
 
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I actually think the world would be a better place without religion. Crime happens now with religion, and if you don't do anything crime related just bc of a book then are you really a good person if it's just for your afterlife? Not to mention all the wars that were religion based. Or the Radical Islam whackos trying to kill everyone bc their religion says kill those who believe differently. Just my opinion of course

Thats fine with me, for you. I don't need the bible or religion to be a "morally sound" individual, but I know by reading the bible on a regular basis, I become a better person daily. If that translates to you thinking Im weak, that's okay too. I ain't perfect and everyone around me benefits from it.
 
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i think i've made it fairly clear where i stand on this matter, but....at the risk of sound like i've gone to the other side....this is where it loses me.

it's like when your dad would tell you "because i said so, that's why".

Trust me, I completely understand. My natural personality is to be like Peter was and cut off Malchus' ear when they came to take Jesus, but I know that's wrong.

There are many who would change what the word says to make it more palatable for people, but I dare not add or subtract from the word just to tickle ears. God's word won't change, but it sure changes us when we accept it on faith and surrender our will to the will of God as revealed to us in scripture.
 
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