Bye-bye F-35?

#326
#326
82_VOL_83 said:
Actually there is an entire story behind the TF33 that I can tell you if you email me. Do you still have the old gmail that I posted 100 years ago. I think you actually may have emailed me.
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Were you in the USAF?

Hey BTW...next time you drive by Sloan Rd, that was my old street
 
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#329
#329
Grand Vol said:
A shortcoming mentioned once or twice by Northrop when trying to market the F-20 lol

I still say that was one of the greatest fighters never produced. There really was a market for them and probably still would be today had things been different.
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Wish Northrop had produced this “Super” Tomcat. The ASF-14.

Increased speed
Increased range
Thrust vectoring
All new sensors and avionics

Thrust vectoring nozzles, if the Navy had opted to include them, would have taken the new fighter’s maneuverability to a positively mind-boggling level when leveraged in conjunction with its automated sweep-wing design. According to some sources, the AST21 would have already been able to sustain 77 degrees of sustained AoA (angle of attack) thanks to the aircraft’s planned aerodynamic improvements, and thrust vector control would have pushed that even further.

With wing position controlled by an on-board computer for maximum benefit, the massive (in comparison) F-14 could already turn tighter than its tiny Air Force sibling, the F-16 Fighting Falcon, under the right circumstances. The addition of thrust-vectoring would not only have improved upon that already-impressive Angle of Attack figure, it likely would have made the Super Tomcat 21 the most acrobatic and maneuverable fighter not just of its era, but likely for decades yet to come.
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Would have been tough to handle….

Super Tomcat: The 21st century F-14 that would still be flying today
 
#331
#331
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#332
#332
82_VOL_83 said:
Oh yeah, had forgotten about that.
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There are big car plants out in them cotton fields I imagine. Used to be cotton as far as one could see. I always liked that area at least back then..people and things but not too many. Haven't drove thru in decades.
 
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#334
#334
Orangeburst said:
There are big car plants out in them cotton fields I imagine. Used to be cotton as far as one could see. I always liked that area at least back then..people and things but not too many. Haven't drove thru in decades.
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Yeah, what they did to the Greenbriar area is incredible. I couldn't find Greenbriar Restaurant the other day. My dad had to show me how to get there. That is still run by some guys I went to HS with.
 
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#335
#335
82_VOL_83 said:
One of the big issues with the airframe is the distance between the engines. Compare it with any other twin. It's stupid wide.
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I read about that in regards to the P&W TF30.

The engines were like 9 feet apart. Crazy. They wanted a larger body to carry more weapons.

Apparently led to the “spin” issues when one of the engines would stall out.
 
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#336
#336
One thing very important with a motor is the inlet..Being swing wing made the air flow change at A0A. I used to sell centrifugal air compressors, which are of course static, but not dealing with a dynamic environment. All about surge and choke.
 
#339
#339
85SugarVol said:
I read about that in regards to the P&W TF30.

The engines were like 9 feet apart. Crazy. They wanted a larger body to carry more weapons.

Apparently led to the “spin” issues when one of the engines would stall out.
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Would have been with the GE Engines also had they been in service longer. P&W got the stall issue under control but by then they were persona non-gratis and the F14 was on the way out.
 
#340
#340
82_VOL_83 said:
Would have been with the GE Engines also had they been in service longer. P&W got the stall issue under control but by then they were persona non-gratis and the F14 was on the way out.
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That is so bad...the reach of a carrier wing with F-14's and A-6's, and now we have Super Hornets always towing centerline fuel tanks and Super Hornets refueling Super Hornets and now a coming drone to fuel SH.
The F-111 was developed and designed to launch off carriers and adopted by the USAF
 
#341
#341
Orangeburst said:
That is so bad...the reach of a carrier wing with F-14's and A-6's, and now we have Super Hornets always towing centerline fuel tanks and Super Hornets refueling Super Hornets and now a coming drone to fuel SH.
The F-111 was developed and designed to launch off carriers and adopted by the USAF
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The newer Hornets are much better on fuel. They just aren't the airframe size the 14 was. They look like little baby airplanes parked next to one. The engines are just as big.
 
#342
#342
82_VOL_83 said:
The newer Hornets are much better on fuel. They just aren't the airframe size the 14 was. They look like little baby airplanes parked next to one. The engines are just as big.
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Right IMO. To discuss "better on fuel" could mean SFC (Specific Fuel Consumption) of the motors which means it gets more MPG, but pared with a draggy aerofoil. All about drag and the SH is one draggy plane.
The swing wing and bigger body F-14 made it a longer range with the impact of complexity and weight. The swing wing reduced Drag, although not necessarily better SFC as it carries more gas and had older motors.
Super Tomcats with newer motors would be Perfect for the issue of the PacRim, along with A-6's.
 
#343
#343
Orangeburst said:
Right IMO. To discuss "better on fuel" could mean SFC (Specific Fuel Consumption) of the motors which means it gets more MPG, but pared with a draggy aerofoil. All about drag and the SH is one draggy plane.
The swing wing and bigger body F-14 made it a longer range with the impact of complexity and weight. The swing wing reduced Drag, although not necessarily better SFC as it carries more gas and had older motors.
Super Tomcats with newer motors would be Perfect for the issue of the PacRim, along with A-6's.
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I thought they had to go with the variable wings to slow it down enough to land on the carrier?
 
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#344
#344
85SugarVol said:
I thought they had to go with the variable wings to slow it down enough to land on the carrier?
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You are kinda losing me on the question. They did, just as the F-111 was swing winged and why the Hornet and SH are fixed wing with a lower sweep. Great for landing and turn rate in a dog fight , but bad for range (drag)
 
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#346
#346
82_VOL_83 said:
Actually there is an entire story behind the TF33 that I can tell you if you email me. Do you still have the old gmail that I posted 100 years ago. I think you actually may have emailed me.
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I don't think I do...

Maybe I did lol
 
#348
#348
This boondoggle may just be the end of Lockheed.

Besides Finland and Switzerland, Belgium, Poland, Denmark, Italy, Norway, the UK, and the Netherlands also operate one or more F-35 variants or are awaiting delivery of the aircraft.
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Greece has also expressed interest in Lockheed Martin's cutting-edge aircraft and there are reported talks between the company and Spanish and Czech officials. Further, on February 2, Romanian President Klaus Iohannis expressed his country's intention to buy F-35s.

Multiple operational factors make the F-35 popular with the US's European partners and allies
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Why the F-35 is at the top of the shopping list for militaries in Europe
 
#349
#349
#350
#350
NorthDallas40 said:
It is the number 1 airframe in procurement in the defense purchase plan last year, this year, and will be next year too. They’ll rebaseline the program cost and get more money from the government and then make a killing on sales.

Government contracting is about the only business where inefficiency and cost over runs are rewarded.
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They can’t make em fast enough
 
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