California ban on same-sex marriage struck down

#376
#376
KB5252 said:
I do understand your point but for many people it is a religious issue. As far as the law goes it is not. But those who have strong religious beliefs feel that it is an affront to their beliefs. Personally I fall somewhere in the middle but I see both sides.
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I agree with this.
 
#377
#377
KB5252 said:
I do understand your point but for many people it is a religious issue. As far as the law goes it is not. But those who have strong religious beliefs feel that it is an affront to their beliefs. Personally I fall somewhere in the middle but I see both sides.
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I hear you, and I think it's interesting that the following scenario would be an affront to their beliefs:

Two people love each other very much. They fell in love just like any other couple. They got nervous on their first date. They got nervous before they said "I love you" the first time. They felt giddy and weird holding hands in public for the first time. They never cheat on each other. They work hard and obey the law. They joined the church and attend every week. They serve as deacons and elders, teach Sunday School and visit the elderly. They're model citizens and model church members. And they probably would do just about anything to get others to respect their commitment to each other just like any other couple.

I understand it feels strange to many, but if a few passages from the Old Testament (or New) are their only reason for opposing such a marriage, then we also should look at how women were treated back then (or what it says about eating certain foods or about a thousand other arcane topics) and consider that perhaps not everything in the Bible makes perfect sense today.
 
#378
#378
TennNC said:
I hear you, and I think it's interesting that the following scenario would be an affront to their beliefs:

Two people love each other very much. They fell in love just like any other couple. They got nervous on their first date. They got nervous before they said "I love you" the first time. They felt giddy and weird holding hands in public for the first time. They never cheat on each other. They work hard and obey the law. They joined the church and attend every week. They serve as deacons and elders, teach Sunday School and visit the elderly. They're model citizens and model church members. And they probably would do just about anything to get others to respect their commitment to each other just like any other couple.

I understand it feels strange to many, but if a few passages from the Old Testament (or New) are their only reason for opposing such a marriage, then we also should look at how women were treated back then (or what it says about eating certain foods or about a thousand other arcane topics) and consider that perhaps not everything in the Bible makes perfect sense today.
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So using the scenario you described, would it be an affront to your beliefs if these 2 individuals you described were a 51 year old man and 14 year old boy?

Another question, in your view, is homosexuality a sin in God's eyes?
 
#379
#379
allvol123 said:
So using the scenario you described, would it be an affront to your beliefs if these 2 individuals you described were a 51 year old man and 14 year old boy?

Another question, in your view, is homosexuality a sin in God's eyes?
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Apples and oranges. We are discussing marriage between 2 consenting adults.

A child cannot give consent.
 
#381
#381
allvol123 said:
So using the scenario you described, would it be an affront to your beliefs if these 2 individuals you described were a 51 year old man and 14 year old boy?

Another question, in your view, is homosexuality a sin in God's eyes?
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If you feel it is a sin then pray for them and trust in the knowledge that God will deal with it on judgment day.
 
#383
#383
allvol123 said:
So using the scenario you described, would it be an affront to your beliefs if these 2 individuals you described were a 51 year old man and 14 year old boy?

Another question, in your view, is homosexuality a sin in God's eyes?
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If they're competent adults, I don't care what the age or gender breakdown is. A 14 year old boy is not an adult, so I believe that's not only an affront but illegal as well.

I don't presume to know what God thinks or sees. I see no harm in two adults who love each other and are committed and loyal, so it's not a sin in my eyes. If God disagrees, I figure we'll work that out at another time.
 
#385
#385
TennNC said:
If they're competent adults, I don't care what the age or gender breakdown is. A 14 year old boy is not an adult, so I believe that's not only an affront but illegal as well.

I don't presume to know what God thinks or sees. I see no harm in two adults who love each other and are committed and loyal, so it's not a sin in my eyes. If God disagrees, I figure we'll work that out at another time.
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He isn't? I think in some cultures he is.
 
#386
#386
allvol123 said:
Oh is it? Who are you to deny a 14 year old boy something he consents to? You are his master or owner?
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14 year olds everywhere appreciate your support.

Perhaps you should fight to change the law for them just as homosexuals have fought for an opportunity to marry.
 
#387
#387
TennNC said:
then what is yours?
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Mine. I'd say it is. That is where I am conflicted. I am an absolute believer in freedom, though I dislike the idea of homosexual marriage. But who am I to tell people what to do. But since I think God would view it as a sin, then I have to question how would it be correct for me to condone such an act? If I were voting and I believe I have before on this issue, I'd have to vote no.
 
#388
#388
VolDad said:
14 year olds everywhere appreciate your support.

Perhaps you should fight to change the law for them just as homosexuals have fought for an opportunity to marry.
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No thanks, just playing devil's advocate for all the "open minders" out there.
 
#389
#389
allvol123 said:
Mine. I'd say it is. That is where I am conflicted. I am an absolute believer in freedom, though I dislike the idea of homosexual marriage. But who am I to tell people what to do. But since I think God would view it as a sin, then I have to question how would it be correct for me to condone such an act? If I were voting and I believe I have before on this issue, I'd have to vote no.
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I understand your conflict - I grew up the son of a preacher and thought this way most of my life. Only in the last 10 years or so have I changed my perspective. A big reason is that I actually met some homosexual couples and listened to them. Have you? Especially any who are active in their church and are faithful believers?
 
#391
#391
volinbham said:
My contention is that the Constitution is in effect silent on the issue so it is up to the people (through their representatives) to set the law. Religion may inform someone's position in favor or against but the law is not religious or anti-religious.
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But laws limiting discrimination have always been unpopular, regardless of right or wrong.

Relying upon our Framers or our populace to end end discrimination via vote has proven fruitless. The courts have had to effectively legislate to pass much of the civil rights law on the books today.
 
#392
#392
TennNC said:
I understand your conflict - I grew up the son of a preacher and thought this way most of my life. Only in the last 10 years or so have I changed my perspective. A big reason is that I actually met some homosexual couples and listened to them. Have you? Especially any who are active in their church and are faithful believers?
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I have a relative that I have the utmost repsect for that is gay. He is active in his church and I would consider him a faithful follower for sure. I really can't say a bad thing about him, but that doesn't change my mind on the issue. If we continue this, I'll have to get back at you later, time to hit the daily commute.
 
#394
#394
BigPapaVol said:
But laws limiting discrimination have always been unpopular, regardless of right or wrong.

Relying upon our Framers or our populace to end end discrimination via vote has proven fruitless. The courts have had to effectively legislate to pass much of the civil rights law on the books today.
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Yet some "discrimination" is clearly not unconstitutional.

Marriage is a govt sanctioned contract - why is marriage illegal among 3 people? A law says it is and that law is not considered unconstitutional. I understand the role of the courts in legislating but certainly don't see that as proof in an of itself that the courts should do so.
 
#395
#395
allvol123 said:
I have a relative that I have the utmost repsect for that is gay. He is active in his church and I would consider him a faithful follower for sure. I really can't say a bad thing about him, but that doesn't change my mind on the issue. If we continue this, I'll have to get back at you later, time to hit the daily commute.
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gotta run too, but I would ask for when you return, have you talked to him about his sexuality and his religious beliefs? How does HE reconcile the two?
 
#396
#396
VolinArizona said:
This literally made me laugh out loud.
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Why did it make you laugh?? It happens more than you think. I know of at least 3 marriages from people I have met where this has happened. I don't know of but one person that said they have always been gay from the start that I know.

You know it really doesn't matter honestly to me. I know it's wrong and that's all that matters. This is all for civil rights for a lifestyle and it's really not even really about "civil" rights. It does show however that the "people's voice" is becoming less and less important as far as what goes on within government behind closed doors. It's really more of a slap in the face than anything.
 
#397
#397
BigPapaVol said:
But laws limiting discrimination have always been unpopular, regardless of right or wrong.

Relying upon our Framers or our populace to end end discrimination via vote has proven fruitless. The courts have had to effectively legislate to pass much of the civil rights law on the books today.
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True. Which is why the Framers made us a Republic and not a Democracy.
 
#398
#398
g8terh8ter_eric said:
Why did it make you laugh?? It happens more than you think. I know of at least 3 marriages from people I have met where this has happened. I don't know of but one person that said they have always been gay from the start that I know.

You know it really doesn't matter honestly to me. I know it's wrong and that's all that matters. (1) This is all for civil rights for a lifestyle and it's really not even really about "civil" rights. It does show (2) however that the "people's voice" is becoming less and less important as far as what goes on within government behind closed doors. It's really more of a slap in the face than anything.
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(1) The same reason this makes me laugh

(2) See my response to BPV
 
#399
#399
TennNC said:
If they're competent adults, I don't care what the age or gender breakdown is. A 14 year old boy is not an adult, so I believe that's not only an affront but illegal as well.

I don't presume to know what God thinks or sees. I see no harm in two adults who love each other and are committed and loyal, so it's not a sin in my eyes. If God disagrees, I figure we'll work that out at another time.[/QUOTE]

I've read all this and i was wondering , are you gay:dunno:
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#400
#400
VolDad said:
(1) The same reason this makes me laugh

(2) See my response to BPV
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So you agree this is more about appeasing people than actually doing something positive.

I guess the whole problem I have with this is the "marriage" part. The marriage ceremony is tied hand and hand with faith. I think gays being married doesn't have a place in society. You can call me a caveman if you want, but this very thing is what makes our country viewed by others as corrupt and weak.
 
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