California ban on same-sex marriage struck down

#26
#26
utvolpj said:
I want the courts to decide if a law is not in line with freedoms outlined in the Constitution. As long as they stick with that I am fine with their role in it.
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I see. And the 4-3 decision obviously shows how clear cut the issue is.
 
#27
#27
"We sleep safely in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence upon those who would do us harm."

Remember that.
 
#29
#29
allvol123 said:
I see. And the 4-3 decision obviously shows how clear cut the issue is.
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I don't think I ever claimed it was clear cut (as evidenced by this thread) but it's the system we have. I do believe this is a ruling that, while unpopular in some sections of the country, will lead to better things in the US. There have been similar rulings throughout our history that have done the same.
 
#32
#32
NEW COACH said:
"We sleep safely in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence upon those who would do us harm."

Remember that.
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History class was interesting this week I take it?

You don't think there are any rough gay men?
 
#33
#33
utvolpj said:
I don't think I ever claimed it was clear cut (as evidenced by this thread) but it's the system we have. I do believe this is a ruling that, while unpopular in some sections of the country, will lead to better things in the US. There have been similar rulings throughout our history that have done the same.
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I would mostly agree with MG's stance. However, I am wary of judges stepping in and deciding against what a majority of the people in the state wanted. If some states want to be gay fine, if others don't, fine too. I lean towards the idea of the people of a locality or state deciding how they want their society set up.
 
#34
#34
emainvol said:
To all those opposed to this ruling

a) how do you feel about separation of church and state, and if your argument is the constitution doesn't explicitly separate the church and the state please explain. This is my question because I can't think of anyone I know off the top of my head who is against gay marriage, but not religious.

b) seeing as how we as a society have all but turned the institution of marriage into a sham anyways, do you think we should also ban divorces except for in cases of adultery, domestic violence, etc?
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There is an impenetrable wall between church and state and no legislative branch or otherwise can force them or any institution against their will. I believe the only real legal arguement could possibly be that marriage is a religious institution and always has been. Civil unions with equal protection are not religious and are the way to go IMO.
 
#35
#35
KB5252 said:
There is an impenetrable wall between church and state and no legislative branch or otherwise can force them or any institution against their will. I believe the only real legal arguement could possibly be that marriage is a religious institution and always has been. Civil unions with equal protection are not religious and are the way to go IMO.
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But what about those who are not affiliated with religion, should they not be married either? I am a heterosexual agnostic, what do I do?
 
#36
#36
emainvol said:
actually, one more question. Shouldn't we allow gay marriage on the basis of equality? I believe the line is that "all men are created equal" which should be taken to mean "all people are created equal." Do the words "all men" not include homosexuals?
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They have the same right as i do to marry a woman, if they choose not to its not my problem, but i will never support gay marriage and those same writers of the constitution which stated all men are created equal would be appalled by this ruling... Marriage is union between a man and woman no other definitions apply
 
#37
#37
emainvol said:
But what about those who are not affiliated with religion, should they not be married either? I am a heterosexual agnostic, what do I do?
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Civil union, as a heterosexual agnostic why would you want a religious ceremony?
 
#38
#38
KB5252 said:
Civil union, as a heterosexual agnostic why would you want a religious ceremony?
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Just because I am not religious does not mean I cannot borrow from other religious ceremonies, mix and match if you will. I have friends who have done that exact thing. I would be completely fine with nothing but a marriage license and a trip to the justice of the peace, but I don't think I could sell a potential wife on that. Who knows.
 
#39
#39
bigtime said:
They have the same right as i do to marry a woman, if they choose not to its not my problem, but i will never support gay marriage and those same writers of the constitution which stated all men are created equal would be appalled by this ruling... Marriage is union between a man and woman no other definitions apply
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But that's the thing, that is your belief according to your religion. You cannot say no other definitions apply, because while they may not apply to you, they do to others.
 
#40
#40
emainvol said:
I would be completely fine with nothing but a marriage license and a trip to the justice of the peace, but I don't think I could sell a potential wife on that. Who knows.
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Who knows? I do and it was just not a battle I wanted to fight :p Plus she found a church built in 1632 which I thought was too cool to pass up.
 
#41
#41
bigtime said:
and those same writers of the constitution which stated all men are created equal would be appalled by this ruling
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I believe those men who risked everything to try and create freedom and liberty in the US would be taking up guns to start a new revolution if they saw the gov't of today
 
#42
#42
emainvol said:
Just because I am not religious does not mean I cannot borrow from other religious ceremonies, mix and match if you will. I have friends who have done that exact thing. I would be completely fine with nothing but a marriage license and a trip to the justice of the peace, but I don't think I could sell a potential wife on that. Who knows.
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I get where you are coming from and I fear that because of my views and the laws in this country that I am on the wrong side of the issue as far as the law goes.
 
#44
#44
utvolpj said:
I believe those men who risked everything to try and create freedom and liberty in the US would be taking up guns to start a new revolution if they saw the gov't of today
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Men like them came from Europe to escape high taxes and a government that controlled everything. You can draw many comparisons.
 
#45
#45
emainvol said:
But that's the thing, that is your belief according to your religion. You cannot say no other definitions apply, because while they may not apply to you, they do to others.
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There is absolutely no denying that this country was in fact founded on Judeo-christian beliefs while at the same time promising freedom of religion, homosexuality is not a religion and does not coincide with the judeo-christian belief therefore the homosexual union holds no merit in this country
 
#46
#46
bigtime said:
There is absolutely no denying that this country was in fact founded on Judeo-christian beliefs while at the same time promising freedom of religion, homosexuality is not a religion and does not coincide with the judeo-christian belief therefore the homosexual union holds no merit in this country
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I'm sure that made sense in your head

Christianity neither is, nor ever was a part of the common law. -Thomas Jefferson, letter to Dr. Thomas Cooper, February 10, 1814
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#48
#48
Our laws and freedoms outlined in the constitution were based on Judeo-Christian beliefs. The paper that established this country did refer to god and christian principals on more than one occasion.
 
#49
#49
bigtime said:
Your right it wasnt part of but it was instilled in... heres an interesting read i found

Christianity and the American Constitution
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Here comes the Christianity bashing in 3,2,1...

OK, I have a question, for the people on here who are for gay marriage (and this is a legit question, I'm not being a smart ass), what should marriage be defined as? I mean in just a pure simple context... the union of two people who love one another, or how would you describe it?
 
#50
#50
All those for same sex marriage what would you say to an incest union? and what makes their circumstance different than that of homosexuals? If homosexuals are aloud marriage should not a brother and sister who love each other be able to have union with each other? What other argument besides morality could defeat it?
 
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