Cancer is a product of industrial environment

#228
#228
you going to answer my other question or just ignore anything that makes you look stupid?
 
#229
#229
gibbs... once again I feel compelled to invite you to give up all vestiges of the IR... like the internet and computers... join with all your liberal pals, buy a parcel of land, and live your dream. Just leave the rest of us alone.
 
#230
#230
sjt18 said:
gibbs... once again I feel compelled to invite you to give up all vestiges of the IR... like the internet and computers... join with all your liberal pals, buy a parcel of land, and live your dream. Just leave the rest of us alone.
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gibbs is too big a hypocrite to give up his capitalist lifestyle in order to live the life he wishes the rest of us should be forced to live.
 
#231
#231
droski said:
and in your opinion a significant % of the population in the united states lives off less than $730 year?
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I was waiting for you to answer my question, but I'll go first, that's fine.

Here is how the US census defines poverty in the United States:

How the Census Bureau Measures Poverty - U.S Census Bureau

And here is a broader measure of poverty around the world (from the World Bank):

Poverty Facts and Stats ? Global Issues

And finally this is the CIA numbers living below the poverty line (answer: 12%):

https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/fields/2046.html

Now, do you or do you not want to dismantle the in-kind "income" delivered to US poor?
 
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#232
#232
sjt18 said:
gibbs... once again I feel compelled to invite you to give up all vestiges of the IR... like the internet and computers... join with all your liberal pals, buy a parcel of land, and live your dream. Just leave the rest of us alone.
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And, again, I inivite you to think about Industrialization differently. Industrialization did not bring you all your nice things. The gifts of the Enlightenment did. It is time to apply those gifts in new paradigms. It does not mean returning to Pleistocene Man.
 
#233
#233
MG1968 said:
gibbs is too big a hypocrite to give up his capitalist lifestyle in order to live the life he wishes the rest of us should be forced to live.
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At the core, Progressives despise freedom and are cosmic busybodies. They rail against those who would make "moral judgments" concerning moral issues but then see no problem making moral judgments over what people legitimately do with the wealth that belongs to the individual. Progressives have a foundational belief in the benevolent dictator... that there are those called and gifted with the wisdom to run society and the economy. They believe that genuine freedom and rights extended to the individual are on the whole destructive to both the individual and society.

When you accept these things as foundational premises... then the non-sense gibbs spouts is sensible.

I doubt gibbs will respond to my challenge to do what he wants with what belongs to him but to leave the rest of us alone. His way doesn't work but it cannot even give the illusion of working unless he can force everyone else to do what he wants them to do.
 
#234
#234
MG1968 said:
gibbs is too big a hypocrite to give up his capitalist lifestyle in order to live the life he wishes the rest of us should be forced to live.
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Rentiers also derive income from patents, although it would be news to everyone I'm running a Leona Helmsley operation, including tenets.
 
#236
#236
#237
#237
utgibbs said:
Rentiers also derive income from patents, although it would be news to everyone I'm running a Leona Helmsley operation, including tenets.
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so you admit that you're a hypocrite? Excellent!!!

GSM
 
#238
#238
utgibbs said:
And, again, I inivite you to think about Industrialization differently. Industrialization did not bring you all your nice things. The gifts of the Enlightenment did. It is time to apply those gifts in new paradigms. It does not mean returning to Pleistocene Man.
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You really do not understand simple supply, cost, and demand models, do you? The "gifts of the Enlightenment" meant that an artisan made everything one off. EVERYTHING relatively speaking was more expensive and less accessible to the masses. You and I are typing on computers that might exist but would cost 10's of thousands of dollars if we did it the way you propose.

Again, if you truly believe in the model you are espousing, gather up your friends and start one. Shoot, if it works then the rest of us will probably adopt it also.

I know there are trade offs. I know everything about industrialization isn't rosy. But I don't long for my grandparents' subsistence farm.

Do what you want but LEAVE THE REST OF US ALONE.
 
#239
#239
utgibbs said:
Wait a minute! Answer my questions:

Is poverty relative?

Do you want to dismantle in-kind contributions to the US poor?

I simply gave you what I thought was the absolute lines for the UN.

(And YES, that is a significant fraction!)
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no it's not relative. i assure you that the middle class in china that you think are oh so happy because they aren't living in poverty would switch lives with the people here you consider in poverty in a second.

yes
 
#240
#240
utgibbs said:
I'm not sure you can be "snowed" by Wendell Berry. That's an interesting (laughable) concept. His history of the transformation of American agriculture will never be matched though.

It was just a "further reading" suggestion. Since he has lived in Owensboro all his life (and I lived in Clarksville for my formative years) it is small wonder we have looked upon the Mennonite / Amish example with some wonderment and appreciation? I believe you are also on record the Amish are living the American Dream.

I'm not sure why a "further reading" example would get you so bent out of shape. :dunno:
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Not at all bent out of shape. Just trying to understand how you reach the views you hold.

I posted it as an example of views you are apparently espousing.

I'm as pro-Amish as anyone - I just don't believe their model is what the world should be nor is it sustainable for the total world population.
 
#241
#241
utgibbs said:
Wrong. Free range chickens possess omega acids which factory production does not.

And ANYONE with access to free range meat knows the difference immediately.
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I was referring to your assertion that food produced free of industrialization is naturally better quality.
 
#242
#242
I don't think people in a third world country would care if a chicken leg was free range or not. The fact that we are about to even debate this topic, shows how well industrialization has benfited society.
 
#243
#243
utgibbs said:
You and BPV are on record as saying poverty is relative.

Which is it?

(I think the UN considers < $1.25 / day destitution with < $2.00 / day abject poverty. But double check)
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No I'm not. You're the idiot saying there is a defined poverty, but that it moves depending upon income levels of those around town.

I said your stats are stupid because defining poverty is a fool's game.
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#244
#244
sjt18 said:
You really do not understand simple supply, cost, and demand models, do you? The "gifts of the Enlightenment" meant that an artisan made everything one off. EVERYTHING relatively speaking was more expensive and less accessible to the masses. You and I are typing on computers that might exist but would cost 10's of thousands of dollars if we did it the way you propose.

Again, if you truly believe in the model you are espousing, gather up your friends and start one. Shoot, if it works then the rest of us will probably adopt it also.

I know there are trade offs. I know everything about industrialization isn't rosy. But I don't long for my grandparents' subsistence farm.

Do what you want but LEAVE THE REST OF US ALONE.
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this is the real world being ignored. for enlightenment to transfer into readily available product industrialization is needed. there has to be some incentive for risk.
 
#245
#245
volinbham said:
this is the real world being ignored. for enlightenment to transfer into readily available product industrialization is needed. there has to be some incentive for risk.
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What are these incentives and risk of which you speak?
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#247
#247
volinbham said:
betterment, positive freedom, less cheap tat and Gorilla chow.
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Gorilla chow is apparently a marketing gimmick. Says it will keep my gorilla healthy, but has made him fat as hell. Does that stuff have cheese nip in it?
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#248
#248
Volst53 said:
I don't think people in a third world country would care if a chicken leg was free range or not. The fact that we are about to even debate this topic, shows how well industrialization has benfited society.
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We are all college educated (or getting one), and in the upper 20% of American society.

Which means 80% of the nation is well below our level. There is a SIZEABLE American underclass.

Industrialization DID NOT produce these benefits. A revolution in thinking, moving away from a faith-based view of the world, and observing and measuring the real world outside the backdoor produced these benefits. This revolution happened before industrialization, and was required FOR it.

And, the first 150 years should demonstrate how patently false it is. By almost every metric, the vast majority pulled into Industrialization - worse health, devastated familes, oppression, and squalor everywhere. Social revolutions ameliorated the true face of industrialization.
 
#249
#249
BigPapaVol said:
No I'm not. You're the idiot saying there is a defined poverty, but that it moves depending upon income levels of those around town.

I said your stats are stupid because defining poverty is a fool's game.
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A superminority opinion if ever there was one.

I'm sure several Nobel Laureates of economics agree with you. :hi:
 
#250
#250
volinbham said:
this is the real world being ignored. for enlightenment to transfer into readily available product industrialization is needed. there has to be some incentive for risk.
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What risk is needed exactly? Is that why the Soviet built 10,000 nuclear missiles?

Industrialization, as I've said several times now, is the type of application of technology / science. It is perfectly possible to apply this in different ways.
 
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