Carroll v. Trump ($88 million judgment for Carroll)

#426
#426
85SugarVol said:
I’m no supporter of the Don, and I won’t defend him here.

But to your bolded - Do you think citizens of Oregon should be held accountable to the laws of Mississippi, and vice versa? Should the good people of Oregon be subject to say, Mississippi sodomy laws?
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Of course not, I was simply addressing "the common definitions" angle.
 
#428
#428
luthervol said:
Of course not, I was simply addressing "the common definitions" angle.
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I don’t like the idea of a rural eastern Oregon judge using “common definitions” from say, Alabama & Mississippi, to adjudicate the people of Oregon.

Maybe that’s just me.
 
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#429
#429
85SugarVol said:
I don’t like the idea of a rural eastern Oregon judge using “common definitions” from say, Alabama & Mississippi, to adjudicate the people of Oregon.

Maybe that’s just me.
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I'm pretty sure we are in agreement.
 
#433
#433
85SugarVol said:
I’m no supporter of the Don, and I won’t defend him here.

But to your bolded - Do you think citizens of Oregon should be held accountable to the laws of Mississippi, and vice versa? Should the good people of Oregon be subject to say, Mississippi sodomy laws?
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The law of New York was followed, which is why you end up with articles from pro-Trump news sources saying he was “cleared of rape.”

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Trump was making an argument about the reasonableness of damages and asking Kaplan to overturn a jury verdict based on the idea that what he was found to have done wasn’t offensive enough to support $2M in damages because they had cleared him of rape, therefore they might have just found that he groped her breasts over her clothing.

According to Kaplan, this isn’t like criminal law, where statute A sets out a penalty of X amount and statute B sets out a penalty of X+Y amount (see p. 39). It’s a matter of his evaluation of whether the jury verdict is egregiously against the weight of the evidence.

The parties did not seek a verdict with detailed findings (p. 42). So the jury did not articulate what specific behavior constitutes the sexual assault.

Kaplan is supposed to determine whether the verdict matches the evidence and he can weigh some aspects of it, but he is required to give pretty substantial deference to the jury.

The judge cited the evidence at trial and found that there was no evidence that Trump had merely groped Carrol’s breasts over her clothing. However, there was evidence that he had forcibly and painfully penetrated her vagina with his fingers. Given the New York statutory definition of sexual assault that was charged to the jury, and his own weighing of the proof, this was the most reasonable explanation for their verdict. He finds that that conduct supported a verdict of $2M.

tl;dr Calling it rape avoids minimizing the gravity and offensiveness of the conduct in a way that is quick and easily understood and also places it within a range of conduct that meets the statutory definition of sexual assault, which is the essence of what he must decide and convey in writing when evaluating the reasonableness of the verdict. Noting that it’s the “common meaning” of the word is a way to distinguish it from the relevant statute.

Where is the slippery slope in that? It’s just a judge being a judge and seemingly following established rules and laws.
 
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#434
#434
RockyTop85 said:
The law of New York was followed, which is why you end up with articles from pro-Trump news sources saying he was “cleared of rape.”

Loading…

storage.courtlistener.com

Trump was making an argument about the reasonableness of damages and asking Kaplan to overturn a jury verdict based on the idea that what he was found to have done wasn’t offensive enough to support $2M in damages because they had cleared him of rape, therefore they might have just found that he groped her breasts over her clothing.

According to Kaplan, this isn’t like criminal law, where statute A sets out a penalty of X amount and statute B sets out a penalty of X+Y amount (see p. 39). It’s a matter of his evaluation of whether the jury verdict is egregiously against the weight of the evidence.

The parties did not seek a verdict with detailed findings (p. 42). So the jury did not articulate what specific behavior constitutes the sexual assault.

Kaplan is supposed to determine whether the verdict matches the evidence and he can weigh some aspects of it, but he is required to give pretty substantial deference to the jury.

The judge cited the evidence at trial and found that there was no evidence that Trump had merely groped Carrol’s breasts over her clothing. However, there was evidence that he had forcibly and painfully penetrated her vagina with his fingers. Given the New York statutory definition of sexual assault that was charged to the jury, and his own weighing of the proof, this was the most reasonable explanation for their verdict. He finds that that conduct supported a verdict of $2M.

tl;dr Calling it rape avoids minimizing the gravity and offensiveness of the conduct in a way that is quick and easily understood and also places it within a range of conduct that meets the statutory definition of sexual assault, which is the essence of what he must decide and convey in writing when evaluating the reasonableness of the verdict. Noting that it’s the “common meaning” of the word is a way to distinguish it from the relevant statute.

Where is the slippery slope in that? It’s just a judge being a judge and seemingly following established rules and laws.
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I see what you’re saying. I know I’m splitting hairs.
 
#441
#441
#446
#446
Simon Ateba
@simonateba


BREAKING: Trump makes first comments after storming out of courtroom in New York, says, "The Courts are totally stacked against me," says Clinton-appointed Judge Kaplan "refuses to allow the Anderson Cooper Interview on CNN (below) of E. Jean Carroll wherein Carroll says, “Rape is sexy.”

He writes, "We asked for one Trial, on the E. Jean Carroll False Accusation Case, but the Judge wouldn’t give it to us, he made us have two Trials on the same Hoax, and then, on the second Trial, they were allowed to use whatever information they wanted from the first, but we weren’t allowed to use anything! As an example, the Depositions they’re using on the second Trial were taken in the first.

"He wouldn’t allow us to use the totally exonerating Anderson Cooper/CNN Interview on either trial, but none of it in the second. Our Legal System is in shambles! This is another Biden Demanded Witch Hunt against his Political Opponent, funded and managed by Radical Left Democrats.

"The Courts are totally stacked against me, have never been used against a Political Opponent, like this, but in the end, we will win it all, and MAKE AMERICA GREAT AGAIN!"

In another post, Trump says, "Judge Kaplan refuses to allow the Anderson Cooper Interview on CNN of E. Jean Carroll wherein Carroll says, “Rape is sexy,” and numerous other things that totally exonerate me. Judge Kaplan is refusing me my Constitutional Right to Due Process, to defend myself against this False Accusation. This is a one-sided trial, where the other side is allowed everything, and we are allowed nothing. He is an extremely abusive individual, the likes of which few have seen before!"

In yet another post, Trump says, "The only right, honest, and lawful thing that Clinton-appointed Judge Lewis Kaplan, who has so far been unable to see clearly because of his absolute hatred of Donald J. Trump (ME!), can do is to end this unAmerican injustice being done to a President of the United States, who was wrongfully accused by a woman he never met, saw, or touched (a photo line does not count!), and knows absolutely nothing about.

"I have been considered an A-List celebrity for many decades, so even decades ago, since no one knows which date or dates to refer to, because the accusing woman can’t say the day, month, season, year, or decade, it would have been impossible for me to walk into a crowded department store (surrounded by buildings I own), right opposite the cashiers’ checkout desk, without being written about on Page Six, and every other outlet at the time. Remember, those gossip columnists were, perhaps, even more vicious and obsessed than the Internet of today.…"
 
#447
#447
jmacvols1 said:
BREAKING: Trump makes first comments after storming out of courtroom in New York, says, "The Courts are totally stacked against me,"

"The Courts are totally stacked against me, have never been used against a Political Opponent, like this, but in the end

In yet another post, Trump says, "The only right, honest, and lawful thing that Clinton-appointed Judge Lewis Kaplan, who has so far been unable to see clearly because of his absolute hatred of Donald J. Trump (ME!),

"I have been considered an A-List celebrity for many decades,
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Trump going to Trump. Poor Trump can't get a break. Trump uses these tactics against all his Political Opponents. Trump has stacked the deck against him. He just needed to STFU vs hollering foul. Whine like a pig going to slaughter is the Trump/Maga Way. A list means "Avoid at all Costs" other leaders of the Free World did talk about him like he was a pig. Bestie was Putin.
 
#448
#448
Sudden Impact said:
Trump going to Trump. Poor Trump can't get a break. Trump uses these tactics against all his Political Opponents. Trump has stacked the deck against him. He just needed to STFU vs hollering foul. Whine like a pig going to slaughter is the Trump/Maga Way. A list means "Avoid at all Costs" other leaders of the Free World did talk about him like he was a pig. Bestie was Putin.
Click to expand...
 
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