Carter Page FISA warrant request released.

#76
#76
evillawyer said:
Has it been discussed that Page wasn't wiretapped until 1 month AFTER he left the Trump campaign? Seems to, you know, explode any tin-foil hat theories out there that this was about surreptitiously spying on Trump.
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Not really. So once the warrant is imposed they get two hops retroactively from Page? So they get to listen to him as well as two steps removed from him. And information prior to date of the warrant?

Why Civil Libertarians Should Be Worried about the FISA Warrant on Carter Page – Tablet Magazine

Whether eavesdropping is done for national-security purposes under FISA [the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act] or for law-enforcement purposes under criminal statutes, the objective is always the same: to uncover the full scope of a conspiratorial enterprise. The point is to identify all of the conspirators, and especially to establish the complicity of the most insulated leaders. Carter Page may have been the surveillance target named in the FISA warrant, but he was of low rank in the alleged conspiracy. The point of monitoring Page was to determine exactly what he was doing and, just as crucial, who was directing him.
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Page was a convenient target but not ultimately who they wanted. They wanted Trump directly plain and simple.
 
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#77
#77
NorthDallas40 said:
Not really. So once the warrant is imposed they get two hops retroactively from Page? So they get to listen to him as well as two steps removed from him. And information prior to date of the warrant?

Why Civil Libertarians Should Be Worried about the FISA Warrant on Carter Page – Tablet Magazine



Page was a convenient target but not ultimately who they wanted. They wanted Trump directly plain and simple.
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Wait, are you saying by getting a wiretap on Page they, by that fact alone, get to wiretap those he is talking to and the people those people are talking to?
 
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#79
#79
evillawyer said:
Wait, are you saying by getting a wiretap on Page they, by that fact alone, get to wiretap those he is talking to and the people those people are talking to?
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Read the article. The scary part is the three hop rule granted during the Patriot Act. Yes. Page talks to person A. Person A is tagged and talks to person B. Person B is now within the umbrella also.

And this is nothing new. We’ve pointed it out many times before. You guys simply ignore it.
 
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#82
#82
evillawyer said:
Has it been discussed that Page wasn't wiretapped until 1 month AFTER he left the Trump campaign? Seems to, you know, explode any tin-foil hat theories out there that this was about surreptitiously spying on Trump.
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You're a lawyer? Serious question.
 
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#83
#83
evillawyer said:
Wait, are you saying by getting a wiretap on Page they, by that fact alone, get to wiretap those he is talking to and the people those people are talking to?
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You're conflating wiretaps with all the emails of all persons within 2 hops of Carter Page.
 
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#84
#84
Mick said:
It's meta data that they can access not a warrantless wiretap or active surveillance for person B or C.
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It states “communications”. I don’t think they can log voice two hops away but I don’t know.

And they don’t stop there. A conspiratorial enterprise is bound to involve communications beyond Carter Page’s first circle of direct contact, so investigators need to look at the next circle as well. They may need to look further, depending on the communications patterns they find in the first two circles radiating from their named target. But under current rules, it’s the first two that government investigators can routinely gain access to in order to “uncover the full scope of a conspiratorial enterprise,” without needing to apply for further warrants.

This convention is referred to as the “two-hop” rule, and, like many provisions of surveillance law, has come in for criticism by civil libertarians.
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#85
#85
ajvol01 said:
You're conflating wiretaps with all the emails of all persons within 2 hops of Carter Page.
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I think it's metadata they get to collect, not content of communications. I.e., to/from data, date of communication, place of communication and length of communication.
 
#86
#86
evillawyer said:
I think it's metadata they get to collect, not content of communications. I.e., to/from data, date of communication, place of communication and length of communication.
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I submit you’re speculating just like I admitted I am. You’re downplaying it to just a call logger like they did on Cohen or Manafort? This was a FISA warrant. Much more enabling.
 
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#88
#88
Ok, so sounds like a wiretap warrant on Page was approved by a total of 4 Republican appointed judges and signed off on by Republican appointed intelligence officials for a wiretap starting 1 month after he left the Trump campaign and an incident of the wiretap was that it would allow for metadata collection (but content collection) of those with whom he was in contact with.

And this is a conspiracy to get Trump how?
 
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#89
#89
evillawyer said:
NSA Can Legally Access Metadata of 25,000 Callers Based on a Single Suspect’s Phone - IEEE Spectrum
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Interesting article. It does explicitly state metadata only. It also demonstrated how much information they could get from the metadata. And there’s this nugget.

Now, the stricter 18-month "two hop" rule permits the agency to recover metadata from about 25,000 phones with a single request, according to the Stanford study.
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So by tapping Page they go back 18 months and basically get access to the entire Trump campaign?

Page wasn’t the ultimate target. C’mon man.
 
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#90
#90
[twitter]1021032113259319296[/twitter]


[twitter]1021034304955088896[/twitter]

[twitter]1021033879761752064[/twitter]
 
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#91
#91
“I don’t think they did anything wrong,” Rubio said of the FBI efforts. “I think they went to the court. They got the judges to approve it. They laid out all the information ― and there was a lot of reasons... for why they wanted to look at Carter Page.”

“I have a different view on this issue than the president and the White House,” he said on CBS’ “Face The Nation,” also on Sunday. “They did not spy on the campaign from anything and everything that I have seen. You have an individual here [Page] who has openly bragged about his ties to Russia and Russians.”

Marco Rubio Breaks With Trump: FBI Did Not Spy On Presidents Campaign | HuffPost
 
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#92
#92
Mick said:
“I don’t think they did anything wrong,” Rubio said of the FBI efforts. “I think they went to the court. They got the judges to approve it. They laid out all the information ― and there was a lot of reasons... for why they wanted to look at Carter Page.”

“I have a different view on this issue than the president and the White House,” he said on CBS’ “Face The Nation,” also on Sunday. “They did not spy on the campaign from anything and everything that I have seen. You have an individual here [Page] who has openly bragged about his ties to Russia and Russians.”

Marco Rubio Breaks With Trump: FBI Did Not Spy On Presidents Campaign | HuffPost
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RINO charge in 3, 2, 1....
 
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#95
#95
ajvol01 said:
The information is garbage.

That is the scandal. They provided phony evidence to a FISA judge.
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The only scandal is the House Intelligence Committee.
 

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#96
#96
evillawyer said:
Ok, so sounds like a wiretap warrant on Page was approved by a total of 4 Republican appointed judges and signed off on by Republican appointed intelligence officials for a wiretap starting 1 month after he left the Trump campaign and an incident of the wiretap was that it would allow for metadata collection (but content collection) of those with whom he was in contact with.

And this is a conspiracy to get Trump how?
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You're still thinking of this as republicans vs democrats.

Trump's is hated by establishment/swamp republicans much more than Hillary.

He's going to expose all of them.

McCain got the ball rolling with the phony dossier.
 
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#97
#97
Mick said:
“I don’t think they did anything wrong,” Rubio said of the FBI efforts. “I think they went to the court. They got the judges to approve it. They laid out all the information ― and there was a lot of reasons... for why they wanted to look at Carter Page.”

“I have a different view on this issue than the president and the White House,” he said on CBS’ “Face The Nation,” also on Sunday. “They did not spy on the campaign from anything and everything that I have seen. You have an individual here [Page] who has openly bragged about his ties to Russia and Russians.”

Marco Rubio Breaks With Trump: FBI Did Not Spy On Presidents Campaign | HuffPost
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Rubio is a fraud. RINO
 
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#98
#98
ajvol01 said:
You're still thinking of this as republicans vs democrats.

Trump's is hated by establishment/swamp republicans much more than Hillary.

He's going to expose all of them.

McCain got the ball rolling with the phony dossier.
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Oh Lord. Paging William of Ockham.
 
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#99
#99
evillawyer said:
Good read.

With the release of new documents, Devin Nunes’s memo on Carter Page has gotten even less credible
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Yawn...

It’s clear that the information uncovered by Steele does play a prominent role. It’s impossible to say how critical it was to the warrant, though, because so much of the document is redacted.
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And it totally ignores the fact that the FISA warrant, which was renewed three times, enabled spying on the entire candidate and then president elect’s campaign.

You guys seem to keep totally quiet about that.

If they suspected Page why for the love of God did they not inform candidate and then President elect Trump? WHY?!
 
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