Cbj

[KBVol]

Haha. I praised the coaching staff here after their one big win. My reactions actually change based on observable facts. Unlike folks like you who can't bear to ever admit a single fault in your beloved coaching idol.

Last sentence..... Pure Folly.

 

[butchna]

So you're saying: Joker > Dooley > Jones > Franklin?

Math be scary
Posted via VolNation Mobile

 

[Doyle Hargraves]

If we knew before the season that a hapless Josh Dobbs would be quarterbacking half the season, a preseason expectation of six wins would have been the real denial.

But once again, you seem to not want to acknowledge that the 2013 was much less talented than the 2012 team. Unless you disagree with that notion, of course.

True this team suffered injuries, it still does not excuse the Vandy loss imo. You don't play a team that close if you are "out talented". You lose a game that close when you are "out coached".

 

[UTRavens]

True this team suffered injuries, it still does not excuse the Vandy loss imo. You don't play a team that close if you are "out talented". You lose a game that close when you are "out coached".

Given the combination of attrition and injuries, maybe it's not so unreasonable to say Vanderbilt was more talented - or at least that it was close.

I'm not talking about injuries, I'm talking about players who were outright gone. What great young talents were waiting in the wings to replace Tyler Bray, Cordarrelle Patterson, Justin Hunter, Maurice Couch, etc etc etc? A lot of people here are comparing the 2012 and 2013 teams at face value when the situations aren't even remotely similar.

 

[TGVol]

True this team suffered injuries, it still does not excuse the Vandy loss imo. You don't play a team that close if you are "out talented". You lose a game that close when you are "out coached".

No way Vandy loss can be excused or explained in any way shape or form other than poor coaching. But that was not the worst coaching job this year - it was the UF game where we were not even competitive against the worst UF team in last 30 years (which got easily beat by Vandy - losing to Vandy or UK is always the definition of poor coaching in this conference).

 

[KBVol]

No way Vandy loss can be excused or explained in any way shape or form other than poor coaching. But that was not the worst coaching job this year - it was the UF game where we were not even competitive against the worst UF team in last 30 years (which got easily beat by Vandy - losing to Vandy or UK is always the definition of poor coaching in this conference).

To be fair, the Florida team we lost to was nowhere close to as bad as the Florida team Vandy beat several weeks later....after they were decimated with injuries to their QB, OL and defense as a whole. While I agree it was a bad loss in hindsight (given that they finished 4-8), at the time we played them they had the best statistical defense in the country.

 

[Doyle Hargraves]

No way Vandy loss can be excused or explained in any way shape or form other than poor coaching. But that was not the worst coaching job this year - it was the UF game where we were not even competitive against the worst UF team in last 30 years (which got easily beat by Vandy - losing to Vandy or UK is always the definition of poor coaching in this conference).

I guess it was just my perception at the time of the Florida game that made that loss easier to handle. Who knew they were that bad at the time? I understood and even agreed with giving Peterman the start since Worley had looked pretty bad in his starts. What I still don't get to this day is why leave Peterman for as long as Butch did? It was obvious that the kid was in full meltdown long before he was pulled. So, I do agree with your feelings on this game. It was my first Butch wtf moment.

 

[Doyle Hargraves]

To be fair, the Florida team we lost to was nowhere close to as bad as the Florida team Vandy beat several weeks later....after they were decimated with injuries to their QB, OL and defense as a whole. While I agree it was a bad loss in hindsight (given that they finished 4-8), at the time we played them they had the best statistical defense in the country.

While that may be true, I still feel more like we beat ourselves that game than the Florida D did.

 

[TGVol]

I guess it was just my perception at the time of the Florida game that made that loss easier to handle. Who knew they were that bad at the time? I understood and even agreed with giving Peterman the start since Worley had looked pretty bad in his starts. What I still don't get to this day is why leave Peterman for as long as Butch did? It was obvious that the kid was in full meltdown long before he was pulled. So, I do agree with your feelings on this game. It was my first Butch wtf moment.

I also had no problem with Peterman starting but felt like he should have been pulled sooner. But that was not my main issue. I felt like way too many times this year we played too conservative. Other than UGA and SCjr games we always seemed to play as if scared and trying to not make mistakes. Even in Oregon game at some point early in 2nd quarter it became obvious even to the commentators that we should have been going for it on every 4th down because it clearly did not matter to Oregon whether they had to drive 10 or 100 yards against our horrible defense. So why not go all out and pull all the stops when you are in that situation (assuming you actually have a playbook with enough innovative plays - not sure where we stand on this but if we do we have hardly seen anything this past year). That's what was so frustrating to me - even during blowouts we remained so damn predictable. As far as UF, after they lost their QB early in that game you would expect our DC to really come after their QB - but instead we were playing on our heels and let him dictate and gain confidence - by the end of that game he looked like a veteran QB and that was due to our timid approach. So to me the frustration about this last season was more about that timid approach we saw over and over again rather than the W-L record.

 

[oregonvol]

To be fair, the Florida team we lost to was nowhere close to as bad as the Florida team Vandy beat several weeks later....after they were decimated with injuries to their QB, OL and defense as a whole. While I agree it was a bad loss in hindsight (given that they finished 4-8), at the time we played them they had the best statistical defense in the country.

They lost their QB a few minutes into our game. That's where that injury should have hurt them the most and we didn't capitalize on it at all. And they were missing alot of guys from that game already. They had some injuries after that game, but nothing that would dismiss a 2 touchdown loss to a team that lost to Vanderbilt and Georgia Southern. Dominique Easley is a good player, but he doesn't mean the difference of 2+ touchdowns as many on this board want to pretend.

 

[KBVol]

They lost their QB a few minutes into our game. That's where that injury should have hurt them the most and we didn't capitalize on it at all. And they were missing alot of guys from that game already. They had some injuries after that game, but nothing that would dismiss a 2 touchdown loss to a team that lost to Vanderbilt and Georgia Southern. Dominique Easley is a good player, but he doesn't mean the difference of 2+ touchdowns as many on this board want to pretend.

Agree regarding Driskell injury....but UT not being able to contain 2nd stringer Murphy simply carried on a great Volunteer tradition, a tradition upheld by Majors, Fulmer and now Jones in my lifetime. Only half kidding. Your point is certainly valid.

But there's no way anyone can say the Florida team Vandy played was the same team UT played. For the UT game, #19 Florida had 4 players lost to season-ending injuries. By the time unranked Florida played Vandy the number was 9, which included Easley, widely lauded as the best DT in the country, and Matt Jones, their best RB. Even Solomon Patton, their most dynamic playmaker, left the Vandy game with a knee injury.

Florida lost a total of 17 offensive and defensive starters combined throughout the season. I haven't broken it down completely, but it stands to reason that they had a lot more players missing by game 9 (Vandy) than they did by game 3 (UT).

I agree that Tennessee was ill-prepared to defend Florida that game given we knocked their starting QB out. We didn't make defensive adjustments well enough, was disappointed in the in-game coaching. Obviously, starting Peterman starting wound up arguably costing UT the game in hindsight.

 

[oregonvol]

Agree regarding Driskell injury....but UT not being able to contain 2nd stringer Murphy simply carried on a great Volunteer tradition, a tradition upheld by Majors, Fulmer and now Jones in my lifetime. Only half kidding. Your point is certainly valid.

But there's no way anyone can say the Florida team Vandy played was the same team UT played. For the UT game, #19 Florida had 4 players lost to season-ending injuries. By the time unranked Florida played Vandy the number was 9, which included Easley, widely lauded as the best DT in the country, and Matt Jones, their best RB. Even Solomon Patton, their most dynamic playmaker, left the Vandy game with a knee injury.

Florida lost a total of 17 offensive and defensive starters combined throughout the season. I haven't broken it down completely, but it stands to reason that they had a lot more players missing by game 9 (Vandy) than they did by game 3 (UT).

I agree that Tennessee was ill-prepared to defend Florida that game given we knocked their starting QB out. We didn't make defensive adjustments well enough, was disappointed in the in-game coaching. Obviously, starting Peterman starting wound up arguably costing UT the game in hindsight.

Yes, injuries are a fact of life in the SEC. Of course, Florida had more injuries later in the season than early in the season. You know who else did? Tennessee. Vanderbilt. (and Georgia Southern). A healthier Florida whipped a healthier Tennessee, just like a less healthy Florida lost to a less healthy Vanderbilt (and less healthy Georgia Southern).

But are you really trying to say that Florida lost two touchdowns worth of productivity between the UT game and the others? Let's look at that:

Matt Jones played in the UT game but didn't play against Vanderbilt. I am curious though, how you determined he was their best RB? He rushed for over 50 yds once this season (against UK). Mack Brown had significantly more carries and more rushing yards against UT than Matt Jones. And guess what? He played against Vanderbilt and Georgia Southern (where he was less productive than against UT).

Dominique Easley was certainly a big loss for Florida, but was he really a two touchdown difference? He didn't have a single solo tackle against UT.

They were already missing alot when they played us (including CB Roberson, projected 1st rounder, another corner and numerous linemen). They lost their QB at the beginning of the game and lost another projected first rounder (DB Purifoy) during the course of the game. And we were pretty much healthy. Compare that to a banged up Vanderbilt team, missing their starting QB against a more banged up Florida team later in the season. We had as much luck with injuries going into that game and during it as you could ever ask for early in a season and we completely laid down.

Give Vanderbilt and Georgia Southern credit for taking advantage of injuries, but people also ought to recognize that we had a similar opportunity and, once again, failed to take advantage.

 

[KBVol]

Yes, injuries are a fact of life in the SEC. Of course, Florida had more injuries later in the season than early in the season. You know who else did? Tennessee. Vanderbilt. (and Georgia Southern). A healthier Florida whipped a healthier Tennessee, just like a less healthy Florida lost to a less healthy Vanderbilt (and less healthy Georgia Southern).

But are you really trying to say that Florida lost two touchdowns worth of productivity between the UT game and the others? Let's look at that:

Matt Jones played in the UT game but didn't play against Vanderbilt. I am curious though, how you determined he was their best RB? He rushed for over 50 yds once this season (against UK). Mack Brown had significantly more carries and more rushing yards against UT than Matt Jones. And guess what? He played against Vanderbilt and Georgia Southern (where he was less productive than against UT).

Dominique Easley was certainly a big loss for Florida, but was he really a two touchdown difference? He didn't have a single solo tackle against UT.

They were already missing alot when they played us (including CB Roberson, projected 1st rounder, another corner and numerous linemen). They lost their QB at the beginning of the game and lost another projected first rounder (DB Purifoy) during the course of the game. And we were pretty much healthy. Compare that to a banged up Vanderbilt team, missing their starting QB against a more banged up Florida team later in the season. We had as much luck with injuries going into that game and during it as you could ever ask for early in a season and we completely laid down.

Give Vanderbilt and Georgia Southern credit for taking advantage of injuries, but people also ought to recognize that we had a similar opportunity and, once again, failed to take advantage.

All good points. I wasn't trying to put a point value on what the loss of players meant to Florida or anybody else. Also wasn't trying to imply, with respect to the Fla-UT game, that injuries played a role in the final score. It was my thought that Florida was gonna beat UT no matter what. Didn't see anything from that game that gave me confidence in the staff's coaching abilities. It was just disappointing.

Similarly, I was extremely disappointed in the Vandy loss... offensive play, execution and gameplan were all similarly awful. Said that after the game, saying it again now. Outside of the defense for most of the game, no one played well and the team certainly didn't look well-coached.

My only point was that given Florida's unprecedented number of significant injuries, and what surely was a broken psyche by game 9, that they were a much easier team to beat than when UT lost to them game 3. Yes, injuries are part of the game, everyone deals with them.....but I honestly don't recall anyone having to endure the number of significant injuries Florida had to this past year.

21 scholarship players missed at least one full game due to injury, and 10 players had season-ending injuries. I contend that there's little to no chance that the Florida team UT played early in the season would've lost to either Ga Southern or Vandy if they'd only suffered the normal expected attrition that they and other SEC teams normally deal with. Could be wrong, but that's what I believe.

 

[oregonvol]

All good points. I wasn't trying to put a point value on what the loss of players meant to Florida or anybody else. Also wasn't trying to imply, with respect to the Fla-UT game, that injuries played a role in the final score. It was my thought that Florida was gonna beat UT no matter what. Didn't see anything from that game that gave me confidence in the staff's coaching abilities. It was just disappointing.

Similarly, I was extremely disappointed in the Vandy loss... offensive play, execution and gameplan were all similarly awful. Said that after the game, saying it again now. Outside of the defense for most of the game, no one played well and the team certainly didn't look well-coached.

My only point was that given Florida's unprecedented number of significant injuries, and what surely was a broken psyche by game 9, that they were a much easier team to beat than when UT lost to them game 3. Yes, injuries are part of the game, everyone deals with them.....but I honestly don't recall anyone having to endure the number of significant injuries Florida had to this past year.

21 scholarship players missed at least one full game due to injury, and 10 players had season-ending injuries. I contend that there's little to no chance that the Florida team UT played early in the season would've lost to either Ga Southern or Vandy if they'd only suffered the normal expected attrition that they and other SEC teams normally deal with. Could be wrong, but that's what I believe.

We'll have to agree to disagree. It seems to me that many of the most significant injuries Florida suffered were before or during the Tennessee game. We didn't capitalize. Other teams did.

Also, I wonder if the Tennessee team of week 9 would have done much better against them than the Tennessee team of week 3? I definitely don't believe we beat them in either scenario, which is pretty sad when we're talking about an opponent that lost 8 games.

 

[KBVol]

We'll have to agree to disagree. It seems to me that many of the most significant injuries Florida suffered were before or during the Tennessee game. We didn't capitalize. Other teams did.

Also, I wonder if the Tennessee team of week 9 would have done much better against them than the Tennessee team of week 3? I definitely don't believe we beat them in either scenario, which is pretty sad when we're talking about an opponent that lost 8 games.

Yeah, I don't think we'd have beaten them the week that Florida lost to Ga Southern. I will never believe UT can or will beat The University of Florida football Gators until I see it...multiple times.

I don't we really disagree much. Just arguing slightly different points. Either way, UT wasn't beating Florida weeks 1-13 last year IMO. Just think Florida was much more beatable earlier than later.

 

[thebjd]

We'll have to agree to disagree. It seems to me that many of the most significant injuries Florida suffered were before or during the Tennessee game. We didn't capitalize. Other teams did.

Also, I wonder if the Tennessee team of week 9 would have done much better against them than the Tennessee team of week 3? I definitely don't believe we beat them in either scenario, which is pretty sad when we're talking about an opponent that lost 8 games.

Butch rolled the dice on the QB and came up snake eyes. A QB that doesn't turn the ball over wins that game. UF tried to give it to us.

 

[Doyle Hargraves]

Butch rolled the dice on the QB and came up snake eyes. A QB that doesn't turn the ball over wins that game. UF tried to give it to us.

Agreed.
Why Butch left him in so long will forever be a mystery to me.

 

[oregonvol]

Yeah, I don't think we'd have beaten them the week that Florida lost to Ga Southern. I will never believe UT can or will beat The University of Florida football Gators until I see it...multiple times.

I don't we really disagree much. Just arguing slightly different points. Either way, UT wasn't beating Florida weeks 1-13 last year IMO. Just think Florida was much more beatable earlier than later.

Yeah, I agree about us v. Florida. I really hoped a new coaching staff wouldn't have the same failings when it comes to Florida, but it looks like more of the same (that's why, for all of his shortcomings, I've always thought Mark Richt is a pretty good coach and deserves more respect. He doesn't fall into those traps where he always loses to the same guys year after year. Every coach we've ever had for as long as I've been watching UT has always had at least one opponent they can never seem to beat year after year, no matter the talent or make up of the teams).

 

[KBVol]

Yeah, I agree about us v. Florida. I really hoped a new coaching staff wouldn't have the same failings when it comes to Florida, but it looks like more of the same (that's why, for all of his shortcomings, I've always thought Mark Richt is a pretty good coach and deserves more respect. He doesn't fall into those traps where he always loses to the same guys year after year. Every coach we've ever had for as long as I've been watching UT has always had at least one opponent they can never seem to beat year after year, no matter the talent or make up of the teams).

True. If I sound jaded as hell about UT's prospects of beating Florida, it's because I am....6-22 the last 28 times we've played and 9 losses in a row has done it to me.

 

[Other_Guy]

As far as offense goes no doubt it was a great staff - much better than what we have now. Unfortunately defense with Sal was bad enough to more than offset that. If only Wilcox stayed one more year ...

And what's sad is people whined about Chaney.

 

[Other_Guy]

As far as offense goes no doubt it was a great staff - much better than what we have now. Unfortunately defense with Sal was bad enough to more than offset that. If only Wilcox stayed one more year ...

And what's sad is people whined about Chaney. This is the worst thing Butch did all year was not trying to keephim.

 

[TGVol]

And what's sad is people whined about Chaney. This is the worst thing Butch did all year was not trying to keephim.

Should have kept Chaney and Pittman and hired someone other than Jancek. That is a logical way to think about it (in terms of who are better coaches and who would have done a better job with current players). However a lot of head coaches (CBJ included) want a clean slate with people loyal to them. We'll see how it turns out over the next couple of years - maybe they will surprise and do something with their own recruits - i'm not optimistic based on what I have seen so far (to put it mildly), but would love to be wrong about this.