Chase Oliver (Libertarian Candidate) Platform

#53
#53
Vol8188 said:
Why wouldn’t you support the free movement of people?
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Because Nations have borders for a reason. Just like your house has walls and doors. Do you just leave your front door open 24/7 and allow anyone to come in off the street and live there?
You cannot define or establish an object without simultaneously defining what that object IS NOT.
Not saying immigration shouldn’t occur; only that it is our decision as to who is allowed in and when.
 
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#54
#54
Vol8188 said:
Why wouldn’t you support the free movement of people?
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Many reasons but one you are definitely need to think about is diseases. Open borders and free movement of people makes it much easier for diseases to spread. Also, it would allow for criminals like cartels and other organized crime groups to operate more freely and expand.

I mean this is basic stuff. Why you don’t understand this is disturbing.
 
#55
#55
BigOrangeTrain said:
Many reasons but one you are definitely need to think about is diseases. Open borders and free movement of people makes it much easier for diseases to spread. Also, it would allow for criminals like cartels and other organized crime groups to operate more freely and expand.

I mean this is basic stuff. Why you don’t understand this is disturbing.
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You can have open borders without disease. Have specific border checkpoints were you are processed. You have 5 years to pay off any medical expenses and boarding expenses from your entry. If not, you get deported. If anyone is found who didn’t process, they get deported also. For repeat offenders (people we have deported numerous times) they get lengthy prison sentences in their home country.

As far as cartels, that’s a very, very easy problem to fix. Remove their funding through legalization.
 
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#57
#57
volgr said:
Leave your house unlocked and just let people come and go.
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lol I can’t imagine even you’re dumb enough to think that analogy makes sense.

Is the border your personal property?
 
#58
#58
Vol8188 said:
lol I can’t imagine even you’re dumb enough to think that analogy makes sense.

Is the border your personal property?
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Why do you want to restrict the movement of people? See, you arent dumb enough to think that statement by you makes sense in a real world environment because no one actually practices that.
 
#59
#59
volgr said:
Why do you want to restrict the movement of people? See, you arent dumb enough to think that statement by you makes sense in a real world environment because no one actually practices that.
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The movement of people into my home? Or the movement of people in general?

Surely even you are smart enough to know the difference.

I don’t invite all my neighbors into my home. But I also recognize their right to go on vacation if they wish.
 
#60
#60
OrangeTsar said:
Because Nations have borders for a reason. Just like your house has walls and doors. Do you just leave your front door open 24/7 and allow anyone to come in off the street and live there?
You cannot define or establish an object without simultaneously defining what that object IS NOT.
Not saying immigration shouldn’t occur; only that it is our decision as to who is allowed in and when.
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You’re confusing the border and your private property. Those aren’t the same. Yes, borders are important for legal purposes. When I cross from TN to KY, that border matters so I know whose jurisdiction I’m in. But should that border be closed? Should people not be allowed to travel?

Are you saying TN is less of a state because it allows people from KY to cross into it? You lost me with your definition point. This is still a country even if it’s a country that allows people to cross into it, the same way TN is still a state
 
#61
#61
I wish there was an Independent candidate I could cast my vote for, but Oliver isn’t it. For the first time since I’ve been old enough to be eligible to vote there is so far this election cycle no candidate I can support and I am considering not casting a ballot at all.
 
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#62
#62
volgr said:
Honestly, there is no good answer. These are age old philosophical questions. How do you keep an immoral atheistic society from self destructing? Should a society be kept from self destruction? Should every form of vice be available and unregulated at the finger tips of society?

Maybe there is no answer at this point and the current is too great to overcome. We are going over the waterfall regardless. Libertarianism, however, provides no pushback against the current to even try to buy more time.
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James Madison said theConstitution requires a.... “sufficient virtue among men for self-government,” otherwise, “nothing less than the chains of despotism can restrain them from destroying and devouring one another.”

John Adams “Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious People. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other."
 
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#63
#63
utvolpj said:
It's immoral to let people make their own life choices without govt mandate? I believe it's the exact opposite. Why do you believe the collective is preferable to the individual? Has that been working out lately
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The authoritarian right (easy to find by their Putin admiration) are my least favorite members of this board.
 
#64
#64
Wide open borders doesn’t sound like a good idea, but it shouldn’t be so difficult to do it legally. I guess the big issue is putting many on entitlement programs without ever contributing to them. But neither do most countries that receive US foreign aid.

We’re going to need workers. The US population peaks in another generation or two. We’ll be competing with the rest of the developed world that also has less than 2.1 births per couple. Robots have a ways to go before being the solution.

There was less red tape 100 plus years ago when laborers were badly needed. We took the sneaky route through Canada to the upper Midwest states.
 
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#65
#65
jmacvols1 said:
James Madison said theConstitution requires a.... “sufficient virtue among men for self-government,” otherwise, “nothing less than the chains of despotism can restrain them from destroying and devouring one another.”

John Adams “Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious People. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other."
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Exactly. The is what @utvolpj doesnt see.
 
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#66
#66
Vol8188 said:
The authoritarian right (easy to find by their Putin admiration) are my least favorite members of this board.
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Putin has done more to progress Russia forward than any American President has done for the US in the same time. Claims of authoritarianism are borish. Much like racist or anti-semite.
 
#67
#67
volgr said:
Leave your house unlocked and just let people come and go.
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It's not the same thing at all. Property rights and liberty go hand in hand. Nobody has a right to be in your house.

When you close the border, you are restricting others freedoms that they should arguably be entitled to. For example, as a free American, why shouldn't I have the liberty to hire whatever landscaper I want?
 
#68
#68
What’s happened? We ain’t full yet.

"Keep, ancient lands, your storied pomp!" cries she
With silent lips. "Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"
 
#71
#71
utvolpj said:
You don't seem to understand that morals don't need to come from religion.

Madison also thought he was allowed to treat other humans like livestock. How virtuous
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What some of the Founders understood about human nature, you dont seem to understand in this quote, "I still don't see how increased freedom for people leads to destruction". You dont seem to understand that increased freedom goes hand in hand with a virtuous or moral society.

Now, society doesnt have to be religious to be virtuous but those also usually go hand in hand (cant think of many examples where this wasnt the case). Certainly been the case in our Country.

As for Madison, he was a man of the times. Most men across the world at that time, thought different groups were less than and could be used as human livestock.
 
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