Chase Oliver (Libertarian Candidate) Platform

#80
#80
volgr said:
Nobody has a right to be in America either. See how easy that is.
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If you believe in God given rights, how can you argue somebody doesn't have a right to exist within your made up borders? You really think God gave you the right to decide who gets to live the American dream and who doesn't?
 
#82
#82
n_huffhines said:
If you believe in God given rights, how can you argue somebody doesn't have a right to exist within your made up borders? You really think God gave you the right to decide who gets to live the American dream and who doesn't?
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I think God gave people the right to decide who gets to live among them.
 
#90
#90
Thunder Good-Oil said:
Wide open borders doesn’t sound like a good idea, but it shouldn’t be so difficult to do it legally. I guess the big issue is putting many on entitlement programs without ever contributing to them. But neither do most countries that receive US foreign aid.

We’re going to need workers. The US population peaks in another generation or two. We’ll be competing with the rest of the developed world that also has less than 2.1 births per couple. Robots have a ways to go before being the solution.

There was less red tape 100 plus years ago when laborers were badly needed. We took the sneaky route through Canada to the upper Midwest states.
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Neither party wants tight borders. The Ds like the votes and heavily R business interests (ag and construction) like the cheap labor...

You'll see parties pander for votes on this issue but neither will enforce rules actually on the books....
 
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#91
#91
Interesting conversation l..has there ever been a scenario of absolute freedom for the human race that hasn't failed or has succeeded?? Or anything close?
 
#92
#92
n_huffhines said:
You don't believe in inalienable rights? So if 51% of the people voted you had to leave America, you would say God gave them that right?
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No, I don't believe in an inalienable right to be a squatter. When in human history has that been the case? Land is fought over or negotiated for and then protected.
 
#93
#93
volgr said:
No, I don't believe in an inalienable right to be a squatter. When in human history has that been the case? Land is fought over or negotiated for and then protected.
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You don't know what this means of this is what you're asking.
 
#94
#94
Vol8188 said:
You’re confusing the border and your private property. Those aren’t the same. Yes, borders are important for legal purposes. When I cross from TN to KY, that border matters so I know whose jurisdiction I’m in. But should that border be closed? Should people not be allowed to travel?

Are you saying TN is less of a state because it allows people from KY to cross into it? You lost me with your definition point. This is still a country even if it’s a country that allows people to cross into it, the same way TN is still a state
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your analogy doesn't make sense here.

the Tennessee Kentucky border is open because they are part of a common system built on the entire premise of we are both citizens of the common system, and have equal protections under that system. but we are still subject to the respective laws of wherever we find ourselves, and even amongst the free movement there are several qualifications that go with that. chief amongst them is that we belong to the same common system.

No common system exists between the US and other nations. even to one of your previous points how is the US going to enforce a lengthy prison sentence in a foreign nation for a repeat offender?

the issues with an open border go far beyond diseases. even if drugs were legalized there would still be profit in running them, and supplying those who fall outside of whatever approved system there is. Moonshiners still exist and operate outside the law. and cartels do far more than run drugs at this point. the people smuggling will also not stop with an open but controlled border, a good percentage is non-voluntary (aka slavery). they also run guns, pharmaceutical drugs, animals, and just about anything else to avoid the system in place. whether that is tariffs, taxes, registration, or just purely the hassle of the red tape.

if you go back and look at our history even the political side of things becomes reason to hop the border. Pancho Villa wasn't running drugs or anything illegal. but he brought violence with him.
 
#95
#95
n_huffhines said:
It's not the same thing at all. Property rights and liberty go hand in hand. Nobody has a right to be in your house.

When you close the border, you are restricting others freedoms that they should arguably be entitled to. For example, as a free American, why shouldn't I have the liberty to hire whatever landscaper I want?
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you still can.

your argument of absolute freedom here relies on the impossible requirement of knowing what one would otherwise be missing out on in a controlled system. if the border was closed you wouldn't know that you were missing out on hiring Juan Doe' from Chihuahua Mexico. and you have lost nothing. it also ignores the flaw that even under the current system you can't hire whoever you want, you can only fire from the choices you know about and have the opportunity to actually hire.

I very seriously doubt you are going to mexico to try and hire a landscaper. if you were, and even under a controlled border, you would still be able to get them to work on your lawn. green cards and work visas would still exist under a controlled border.

at the very least there are probably half a dozen other government concepts you need to be against in your search to hire whoever you want before the border even becomes an issue. Business licenses, taxes, employee safety standards, EPA and other environmental considerations, fiat money system, banking requirements and other monetary restrictions/controls.
 
#96
#96
LouderVol said:
you still can.

your argument of absolute freedom here relies on the impossible requirement of knowing what one would otherwise be missing out on in a controlled system. if the border was closed you wouldn't know that you were missing out on hiring Juan Doe' from Chihuahua Mexico. and you have lost nothing. it also ignores the flaw that even under the current system you can't hire whoever you want, you can only fire from the choices you know about and have the opportunity to actually hire.

I very seriously doubt you are going to mexico to try and hire a landscaper. if you were, and even under a controlled border, you would still be able to get them to work on your lawn. green cards and work visas would still exist under a controlled border.

at the very least there are probably half a dozen other government concepts you need to be against in your search to hire whoever you want before the border even becomes an issue. Business licenses, taxes, employee safety standards, EPA and other environmental considerations, fiat money system, banking requirements and other monetary restrictions/controls.
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Bro, I don't even lnow what you're on about half the time. If I don't know about the restriction, it still happened. If I was a human battery plugged into the Matrix, I wouldn't know about Juan Doe, either.

Other regulations restrict freedom? Cool. It's still limiting freedom and it's happening. Also, I'm not the only person who matters. Juan Doe's freedoms matter too, actually. He's the one getting way more screwed than I am in the transaction, I just picked the American as the victim because I'm trying to appeal to Americans who might/probably only care about Americans.
 
#97
#97
Like any candidate, I don't agree with him on large portions of his platform but he is far and away the best candidate.
 
#99
#99
n_huffhines said:
Bro, I don't even lnow what you're on about half the time. If I don't know about the restriction, it still happened. If I was a human battery plugged into the Matrix, I wouldn't know about Juan Doe, either.

Other regulations restrict freedom? Cool. It's still limiting freedom and it's happening. Also, I'm not the only person who matters. Juan Doe's freedoms matter too, actually. He's the one getting way more screwed than I am in the transaction, I just picked the American as the victim because I'm trying to appeal to Americans who might/probably only care about Americans.
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You are the one arguing about an impossible situation of ultimate freedom. your ultimate freedom is ALWAYS going to be limited. its paradoxical to argue about ultimate freedom if you are framing the discussion against a singular item like the border.

why do you want to hire Juan Doe vs Miguel Suarez? Because you know about Juan Doe and not about Miguel. Your "freedom" to hire is defined by the scope of your own knowledge. your argument relies on framing your freedom on something you could not otherwise know, who is the best/most desirable for you to hire. there are millions, if not billions, of choices, but somehow some way you and your ultimate freedom are denied by the border if you are left with 100 choices vs 101?

Our government, the ones establishing the borders, should only care about Americans. You are espousing a form of globalism if you think we (our government) should be caring about other nation's peoples.

juan doe is probably more screwed by fellow immigrants who aren't following the laws and taking his rightful place. Just because the line is moving slowly doesn't give anyone the right to cut the line and take someone's else place.

regardless of whether or not the border somehow denies you, or anyone, their freedom; there are processes either side could take to avoid the issue. just because the most direct route to what you want is denied doesn't mean your freedom is taken away.
 
#100
#100
utvolpj said:
It's immoral to let people make their own life choices without govt mandate? I believe it's the exact opposite. Why do you believe the collective is preferable to the individual? Has that been working out lately
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I think he fancies a theocratic approach.
 
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