China Threatens War With The U.S.

#126
#126
Rasputin_Vol said:
Using that as your yard stick, how can you then defend the claims by Taiwan and Japan?
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Japan has relenquished all claims according to an article I found. The article stated the other parties all lay claim by the UNCLOS treaty and economic extension zone 200 mi area. China’s only claim is historical.

I did find where either Brunei or Maylasia one did put military in place but saw no mention of a permanent base. Only China has put down a permanent base which establishes sovereign territory.
 
#127
#127
Here’s an interesting graphic of who the parties are in dispute and what claims they lay.

For reference the Chinese military base is on Mischief Reef which is near the southeastern most border of the red line in the top figure. About mid island of the long skinney island between the Phillipines and Maylasia. Pretty much as far away from mainland China that they could place it within their claimed region.
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#128
#128
NorthDallas40 said:
Japan has relenquished all claims according to an article I found. The article stated the other parties all lay claim by the UNCLOS treaty and economic extension zone 200 mi area. China’s only claim is historical.

I did find where either Brunei or Maylasia one did put military in place but saw no mention of a permanent base. Only China has put down a permanent base which establishes sovereign territory.
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China does have territory within this 200 mi area... you do know this, right?
 
#129
#129
Rasputin_Vol said:
China does have territory within this 200 mi area... you do know this, right?
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Where is it then? And the Spratlys are more than 200 miles from mainland China.

Tell you what. Give me a lat/long and ill look it up.

Edit: I’ll make a guess. Woody Island. Largest of the Paracel Islands I believe? It’s in the bottom pic above. And about 400 miles from Mischief Reef with the terraformed land mass that has the military base on it.
 
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#130
#130
Rasputin_Vol said:
The only aggressive party in all of this is the country that seems to want to dictate what is going on halfway around the world. If these other countries have an issue, let them resolve it. But we don't need to concern ourselves in a regional dispute over a few islands or atolls. It is very clear that AMERICA is interested in protecting their interests in that region. CHINA has no interests in that region, other than to disrupt NON-Chinese shipments and possibly use the area themselves as a military staging ground.
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fyp.

and their means of resolving it was involving us because China is ignoring the international laws China wrote
 
#133
#133
Rasputin_Vol said:
To counter any possible future US meddling or pressure of sanctions.
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pretty sure our navy doesn't militarily enforce sanctions. and we haven't meddled in any fashion over there to justify military expansion and hostility with neighbors. this is exactly the type of thing you rail against our military doing, but when its another country you are fine with it.
 
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#135
#135
NurseGoodVol said:
Of known and well established shipping lanes? Loaded with military? What was the last island the US built to inject territorial rights to shipping lanes?
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Its not about building an island. Yes, it is an extreme measure, but the fear China has is real. It is well within the realm of possibility that The US and our allies could bottleneck this region very easily over some bogus infraction or sanctions.
 
#136
#136
NurseGoodVol said:
Of known and well established shipping lanes? Loaded with military? What was the last island the US built to inject territorial rights to shipping lanes?
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Also, the area that China has built this island is not in a major shipping lane. The region is dotted with atolls, cays, and reefs. Not a very navigable or easily traveled region.
 
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#137
#137
Rasputin_Vol said:
Its not about building an island. Yes, it is an extreme measure, but the fear China has is real. It is well within the realm of possibility that The US and our allies could bottleneck this region very easily over some bogus infraction or sanctions.
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and it is far more real, like actual reality real, that the chinese are already bottle necking the area with these military bases. You can't claim to be medicine if you are worse then the actual disease. Or if you have the exact same effects as the disease.

and if that area wasn't important because of how navigable it is why is China even bothering to build bases there? Cause now you are arguing against your own arguments that this is all to protect their shipping.

-someone quote me, it seems Ras has blocked me again trying to avoid anything resembling common sense or the truth.
 
#139
#139
@NorthDallas40 - is what we did in Iraq not expansionist?

When other countries do stuff, it is very black and white and you give them no benefit of the doubt. When the US does stuff, you tend to see disinterested reasons for doing so or view it as not expansionist because they "want us to be there" or our uniformed troops eventually leave, etc. If you intervene, create conditions that are favorable for you, then leave, or covertly try to create conditions that are beneficial for you, that's expansionist. We have a long history of doing so.

We have intervened all over God's green Earth - overthrown governments and installed ones who liked us, put bases all over the world (welcome or not), etc. If you can't see that, you're just blinded by your own perspective.
 
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#140
#140
05_never_again said:
@NorthDallas40 - is what we did in Iraq not expansionist?

When other countries do stuff, it is very black and white and you give them no benefit of the doubt. When the US does stuff, you tend to see disinterested reasons for doing so or view it as not expansionist because they "want us to be there" or our uniformed troops eventually leave, etc. If you intervene, create conditions that are favorable for you, then leave, or covertly try to create conditions that are beneficial for you, that's expansionist. We have a long history of doing so.

We have intervened all over God's green Earth - overthrown governments and installed ones who liked us, put bases all over the world (welcome or not), etc. If you can't see that, you're just blinded by your own perspective.
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This is why I find the whole posturing and outrage over Russia meddling in our “ sacred “ elections but ignoring what we have done or still do , hilariously hypocritical .
 
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#141
#141
0nelilreb said:
This is why I find the whole posturing and outrage over Russia meddling in our “ sacred “ elections but ignoring what we have done or still do , hilariously hypocritical .
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I think history is optional in school now days. I've said it before and I'll say it again, the days of the movie Idiocracy is going to become true.
 
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#143
#143
VolStrom said:
I think history is optional in school now days. I've said it before and I'll say it again, the days of the movie Idiocracy is going to become true.
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They certainly don't teach history in that way in schools anyway. In every history class I ever took in high school (didn't have to take any history in college - I imagine it is different there) post WWII US history kind of gets breezed through at the end of the semester. Stuff like Vietnam or the Gulf War are mentioned, and a play-by-play of the conflict is discussed, but the backdrop or the reason(s) for us being there aren't really talked about. Lesser-known interventions like the vast number of stuff we did in Central and South America aren't discussed at all.

After WWII is where a lot (not 100%, but a lot) of our geopolitical sins have been committed.
 
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#144
#144
05_never_again said:
@NorthDallas40 - is what we did in Iraq not expansionist?

When other countries do stuff, it is very black and white and you give them no benefit of the doubt. When the US does stuff, you tend to see disinterested reasons for doing so or view it as not expansionist because they "want us to be there" or our uniformed troops eventually leave, etc. If you intervene, create conditions that are favorable for you, then leave, or covertly try to create conditions that are beneficial for you, that's expansionist. We have a long history of doing so.

We have intervened all over God's green Earth - overthrown governments and installed ones who liked us, put bases all over the world (welcome or not), etc. If you can't see that, you're just blinded by your own perspective.
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I am not advocating intervention. And as I said in the other thread we had no business going into Iraq in 2003. That’s one thing Ras and I mostly agree on across the board. I wish we would mind our own damn business more.

I don’t agree with your definition of expansionism. I’m not saying you’re wrong and I’m right I just don’t see it your way. I believe if you want to call it expansionist you need to take territory or sea areas plain and simple.

What we’re splitting hairs over is expansionism vs say “sphere of influence”. That is what I would say you’re putting forth. If expansionism was as simple as putting up a base then we have taken Rota from Spain and Avezanno from Italy. Which is absurd we have done no such thing.
 
#145
#145
NorthDallas40 said:
What we’re splitting hairs over is expansionism vs say “sphere of influence”. That is what I would say you’re putting forth. If expansionism was as simple as putting up a base then we have taken Rota from Spain and Avezanno from Italy. Which is absurd we have done no such thing.
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So using that term sphere of influence, does that mean that anywhere we have a military or naval presence is in our sphere of influence?

LOL
 
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