Chris Dortch: Vols running out of time to pad NCAA resume

[kamoshika]

How can the Vols regroup? Unfortunately, it’s going to take more than “taking pride in shooting the ball,” as coach Cuonzo Martin suggested about some of his players in his post-NC State press conference. Offense needs to be ramped up, and the Vols have to start guarding people.

Here are some suggestions:
Opinion: Vols running out of time to pad NCAA resume | Nooga.com

 

[Spartacavolus]

some of us opined prior to the year how this team should be built and play. CM stuck with his way and shockingly, here we are at 6-4 and already benching guys that aren't halfcourt players. Chris D comes up with it 10 games into a bad season and gets paid to write about it. Kindof wraps up the silliness of our program right now.

 

[NYC Vol]

Wow. We have to "take pride in shooting the ball". I'm just not sure what to say.

 

[NYC Vol]

some of us opined prior to the year how this team should be built and play. CM stuck with his way and shockingly, here we are at 6-4 and already benching guys that aren't halfcourt players. Chris D comes up with it 10 games into a bad season and gets paid to write about it. Kindof wraps up the silliness of our program right now.

The disappointing thing is I consider Dortch to be very knowledgable about hoops. And prior to the season, he was onboard with Zo. Thought he was going to do some great things.

I wish Dortch would have put this article out prior to the season. Putting it out at this point is very reactive and shows as much imagination as Zo has shown through his career. And believe me, I like Dortch. This article is way too late though.

 

[bleedingTNorange]

Great write up and very true.

I was adamant that we stick with Maymon and Stokes, but it's become evident to me Martin isn't good enough schematically to play those 2 and it outweigh what out opponents counter with. I think an experienced coach, a very good coach, could have Maymon and Stokes out there and it work, but honestly Martin is inexperienced and struggles with Xs and Os.

As many called for earlier, I've agreed with in recent weeks, and Dortch points out here...we've got A LOT of athletes, let them do what they do. Let's go 4 out 1 in, let's let Thompson start as he has been one of the few bright spots. This allows Barton to play more at his natural position, but adds a 2nd ball handler and good post passer on the court.

Our bigs just aren't good enough night in and night out defensively for us to be a very good defensive team. How do we counter, increase pressure with our guards and force teams into some mistakes. We rarely turn opponents over, combine that with that fg% we allow and it's a bad combination. Go with the 4 guard and our defensive fg% may not improve a whole lot, but our forced turnovers will resulting in better defensive efficiency.

I'm not Phil Jackson and can't promise this will work, but as Dortch points out its time to do something and this seems the most obvious. We also our thin at depth in the post, but deep at the wings, by playing one big foul trouble becomes less of a concern for our bigs IMO.

 

[orangeluvr]

First off, you must recruit players that can shoot the dad gum ball. :ermm: :shakehead:

 

[Spartacavolus]

The disappointing thing is I consider Dortch to be very knowledgable about hoops. And prior to the season, he was onboard with Zo. Thought he was going to do some great things.

I wish Dortch would have put this article out prior to the season. Putting it out at this point is very reactive and shows as much imagination as Zo has shown through his career. And believe me, I like Dortch. This article is way too late though.

It's Joe Biddle'esque. It further shows that even though people won't admit it, at times, the people that get paid to make the right decisions don't see what the people with an outside view see until it's too late. You don't have to have media credentials or have a D1 coaching job to know the game and see the skills of the players on the floor in games.
This team should've planned on running all summer. That's not CM's way. I get it. That's why he's mediocre. You play halfcourt when you have a halfcourt team. When you are loaded with guys 6'3-6'8 that can get up and down the floor, have length, but can't really shoot, you get them going fast so you get open lanes to the basket or kickouts with rhythm so they aren't thinking "I gotta make this" in the middle of their stroke, which is what we are doing now and why guys are pulling the string. Plus, you have guys like Moore and Richardson along with Mcrae in a 1-2-1-1 type press and they can run all day and cause trouble for the other team. Who cares if we have a few turnovers. We don't try to make anything happen, so our turnovers are low. Who cares. We suck and we are losing. Change it up.

 

[Spartacavolus]

First off, you must recruit players that can shoot the dad gum ball. :ermm: :shakehead:

I believe 100% in the mental side of shooting. Shooters like to get up and down the floor and shoot in rhythm. Get a little hop to their step. When you aren't thinking, they go in. In our halfcourt offense, all the rhythm is taken away and many of our 3's are shots that our guys don't really feel like taking at that point, but have to anyway because we didn't attack and now the shot clock is running down.

 

[NYC Vol]

Great write up and very true.

I was adamant that we stick with Maymon and Stokes, but it's become evident to me Martin isn't good enough schematically to play those 2 and it outweigh what out opponents counter with. I think an experienced coach, a very good coach, could have Maymon and Stokes out there and it work, but honestly Martin is inexperienced and struggles with Xs and Os.

As many called for earlier, I've agreed with in recent weeks, and Dortch points out here...we've got A LOT of athletes, let them do what they do. Let's go 4 out 1 in, let's let Thompson start as he has been one of the few bright spots. This allows Barton to play more at his natural position, but adds a 2nd ball handler and good post passer on the court.

Our bigs just aren't good enough night in and night out defensively for us to be a very good defensive team. How do we counter, increase pressure with our guards and force teams into some mistakes. We rarely turn opponents over, combine that with that fg% we allow and it's a bad combination. Go with the 4 guard and our defensive fg% may not improve a whole lot, but our forced turnovers will resulting in better defensive efficiency.

I'm not Phil Jackson and can't promise this will work, but as Dortch points out its time to do something and this seems the most obvious. We also our thin at depth in the post, but deep at the wings, by playing one big foul trouble becomes less of a concern for our bigs IMO.

Not just this year. Last year as well. And not just athletes. Stokes operates much better from an offensive rebounding perspective and running the floor. He's not good in the paint vs size and length.

It doesn't take a genius to see what this team is best suited for. Being stubborn to your system, despite not having the pieces, isn't a good trait as Zo seems to think it is. Your job, as a coach, is to win games. And to do so you have to put your pieces/players in situations best suited for them and their strengths.

 

[NYC Vol]

I believe 100% in the mental side of shooting. Shooters like to get up and down the floor and shoot in rhythm. Get a little hop to their step. When you aren't thinking, they go in. In our halfcourt offense, all the rhythm is taken away and many of our 3's are shots that our guys don't really feel like taking at that point, but have to anyway because we didn't attack and now the shot clock is running down.

I agree. And it's not up for debate. It's why Chris Lofton makes 90% from 3 in practice in rhythm as opposed to 43% in games.

Our guys are best suited to play up and down. Shooting without thinking. Many have said it for a couple years. And now Dortch is just writing it?

 

[Spartacavolus]

I agree. And it's not up for debate. It's why Chris Lofton makes 90% from 3 in practice in rhythm as opposed to 43% in games.

Our guys are best suited to play up and down. Shooting without thinking. Many have said it for a couple years. And now Dortch is just writing it?

If you are around the Nashville guys that played on Oneils team, we prolly know each other. I thought I saw you mention being around Oneil.

 

[Vols4us]

Not just this year. Last year as well. And not just athletes. Stokes operates much better from an offensive rebounding perspective and running the floor. He's not good in the paint vs size and length.

It doesn't take a genius to see what this team is best suited for. Being stubborn to your system, despite not having the pieces, isn't a good trait as Zo seems to think it is. Your job, as a coach, is to win games. And to do so you have to put your pieces/players in situations best suited for them and their strengths.

This says it all as far as I am concerned. It is sad to me to see the posters in this thread knowing more about how to play this team than the HC making $1.3 mill a year. That same HC recruited all of the players seeing the floor except two - who happen to be the two most productive they have.

 

[NYC Vol]

If you are around the Nashville guys that played on Oneils team, we prolly know each other. I thought I saw you mention being around Oneil.

Probably. I'm good friends with currently and roomed with one of O'Neill's favorites back in the day (walk on earned scholarship so you probably know who it is). I worked a couple of O'Neill's camps back in the day. And yes, I'm in Nashville.

I really thought O'Neill would do big things at UT and I was shocked when he left to go to NW. But he left Jerry with quite a lineup.

 

[whocaresgobobcats]

First off, you must recruit players that can shoot the dad gum ball. :ermm: :shakehead:

Nah they just gotta shoot the ball with pride. That'll cure all.

 

[orangeluvr]

I believe 100% in the mental side of shooting. Shooters like to get up and down the floor and shoot in rhythm. Get a little hop to their step. When you aren't thinking, they go in. In our halfcourt offense, all the rhythm is taken away and many of our 3's are shots that our guys don't really feel like taking at that point, but have to anyway because we didn't attack and now the shot clock is running down.

It gets frustrating watching brick after brick go up. IF the marksmanship doesn't improve Butch will run outta bricks very soon. :crazy:

 

[germanicus]

First off, Dortch and a lot of the national media guys like Cuonzo as a person so much that they project on to him characteristics which just aren't so. The most egregious example was, "he's a tough, defensive minded coach." The whole deal about being a superior talent evaluator is a media myth, too.

Second, the next time Tennessee interviews coaches, the committee should have this quote on a document in front of them all times and not consider anyone who doesn't deliver a version of it in the interview. Someone suggested Eric Musselman as a candidate Tennessee could consider. This is how a good coach thinks.

On his blog, Musselman wrote about the importance of matching an offense to the "team's make up." Depending on the roster, a half-court offense might make more sense. In other cases, a team may be better suited for an "open offense." According to Musselman, the idea is to allow players to "play to their strengths."[11]

The disappointing thing is I consider Dortch to be very knowledgable about hoops. And prior to the season, he was onboard with Zo. Thought he was going to do some great things.

I wish Dortch would have put this article out prior to the season. Putting it out at this point is very reactive and shows as much imagination as Zo has shown through his career. And believe me, I like Dortch. This article is way too late though.

 

[Special Ed]

I'm beginning to think that when Cuonzo was in elementary school, he skipped the day they taught the letters X and O. His alphabet has only 24 letters.

 

[NYC Vol]

The most egregious examples was, "he's a tough, defensive minded coach." "[/I][11]

I was always seen as "anti-Zo" on VQ because I questioned the notion that he was a great defensive coach the day he was hired. Just because someone talks about it doesn't make it so. His teams' historical defensive numbers would actually suggest otherwise.

By the way, I like this board a lot. Don't know why I didn't come here more often. It moves pretty quick. The only thing I don't like is that I can't start a thread for another 250 or so posts.

 

[germanicus]

By the way, I like this board a lot. Don't know why I didn't come here more often. It moves pretty quick. The only thing I don't like is that I can't start a thread for another 250 or so posts.

It's an island between Hoopsville and VQ. Hoopsville is more my "older generation" Vol fan while VQ is just very hostile most of the time. Lots fewer drive-bys here.

 

[NEVolFan]

So much talk of bricks around here.... in case you have not received an update for the Great Brick Build-off".

Oh yeah, it's on...

1) BB...90% complete after 3 years of hard work.

2) FB... after first year of construction.

 

[NYC Vol]

It's an island between Hoopsville and VQ. Hoopsville is more my "older generation" Vol fan while VQ is just very hostile most of the time. Lots fewer drive-bys here.

Back to your point of national media guys and their viewpoints (although I consider Dortch more regional and he should know better), I asked Mike Decourcey about Zo and here was his reply:

Michael DeCourcy ‏@tsnmike 3m
@rcjakes Do UT fans realize the hole they'd dig if Vols moved on at this point? So deep would take genius hire to climb out.
Details
Michael DeCourcy ‏@tsnmike 4m
@rcjakes It's still relatively early. Only halfway thru third year. Just shows how important PG is to winning, especially in CM style.

I don't get it. How big of a hole would we be in if we fired Zo. Would it be bigger than if we kept him after a failed year this year and he had bupkus coming in next year? Why would it be bigger than if we held on to him?

 

[knowthevols]

Back to your point of national media guys and their viewpoints (although I consider Dortch more regional and he should know better), I asked Mike Decourcey about Zo and here was his reply:

Michael DeCourcy ‏@tsnmike 3m
@rcjakes Do UT fans realize the hole they'd dig if Vols moved on at this point? So deep would take genius hire to climb out.
Details
Michael DeCourcy ‏@tsnmike 4m
@rcjakes It's still relatively early. Only halfway thru third year. Just shows how important PG is to winning, especially in CM style.

I don't get it. How big of a hole would we be in if we fired Zo. Would it be bigger than if we kept him after a failed year this year and he had bupkus coming in next year? Why would it be bigger than if we held on to him?

He needs to go after this year.

 

[pdogg]

First off, Dortch and a lot of the national media guys like Cuonzo as a person so much that they project on to him characteristics which just aren't so. The most egregious example was, "he's a tough, defensive minded coach." The whole deal about being a superior talent evaluator is a media myth, too.

Second, the next time Tennessee interviews coaches, the committee should have this quote on a document in front of them all times and not consider anyone who doesn't deliver a version of it in the interview. Someone suggested Eric Musselman as a candidate Tennessee could consider. This is how a good coach thinks.

On his blog, Musselman wrote about the importance of matching an offense to the "team's make up." Depending on the roster, a half-court offense might make more sense. In other cases, a team may be better suited for an "open offense." According to Musselman, the idea is to allow players to "play to their strengths."[11]

So I think you're about to jump on the Eric Mussleman bandwagon? Come on, it's great here. I also like Donnie Tyndall.

 

[BadJerry20]

I was always seen as "anti-Zo" on VQ because I questioned the notion that he was a great defensive coach the day he was hired. Just because someone talks about it doesn't make it so. His teams' historical defensive numbers would actually suggest otherwise.

By the way, I like this board a lot. Don't know why I didn't come here more often. It moves pretty quick. The only thing I don't like is that I can't start a thread for another 250 or so posts.

When did they change thread starting restrictions? It used to be 100.

 

[Chris4Vols22]

Back to your point of national media guys and their viewpoints (although I consider Dortch more regional and he should know better), I asked Mike Decourcey about Zo and here was his reply:

Michael DeCourcy ‏@tsnmike 3m
@rcjakes Do UT fans realize the hole they'd dig if Vols moved on at this point? So deep would take genius hire to climb out.
Details
Michael DeCourcy ‏@tsnmike 4m
@rcjakes It's still relatively early. Only halfway thru third year. Just shows how important PG is to winning, especially in CM style.

I don't get it. How big of a hole would we be in if we fired Zo. Would it be bigger than if we kept him after a failed year this year and he had bupkus coming in next year? Why would it be bigger than if we held on to him?

If you fire a coach for mediocre results instead of failing results, that's an incredibly high risk. We would almost certainly lose the incoming freshman class, Cameron Justice, and possibly players currently on the roster that committed to Zo (notably Thompson and Davis). And you can only hope you're able to make a home run hire or hope that a successful mid major can step into the SEC with no problems. Odds are just not on your side.