Chris Dortch: Vols running out of time to pad NCAA resume

[Spartacavolus]

Did they plan on sucking on @ 7-8 of their first 10 games? No. Why would that make me confident that the middle 3rd is going to get better? The first 2 years showed me NIT. Why would there be confidence that CM is going to make wholesale changes?

 

[bleedingTNorange]

Here's my issue, bleed.

Check out this link: NCAA® National Rankings

You can hover over the year up top and toggle back the last 3 years. Everything about our team is getting worse (except, as you pointed out, our ability to limit turnovers). As Pearl's players have moved on, we've become a worse defensive team. A worse offensive team. Our turnover margin is very good, but only because we don't turn it over. We don't get it back which limits easy bucket opportunities.

I just think in year 3, when you get your own players in the program, things should be trending up. It's not.

Through 10 games you're correct, my point is that it's a little early to write things off IMO. If we continue exactly and end up 18-12 that's a huge disappointment and I won't be pleased.

The Virginia game is huge, win out OOC and we look more like a 22 win team than 18 win team.

 

[bleedingTNorange]

Things will work themselves out. You Sparty, or you NYC have no impact over whether or not Zo stays.

If we make the dance he's gonna get an extension and a raise.

If he doesn't he's likely on his way out, this year or next.

As I've already said, I'm a supporter of TNBB, the best thing for the program is for Martin to righten the ship and be here for the long haul.

 

[NYC Vol]

Things will work themselves out. You Sparty, or you NYC have no impact over whether or not Zo stays.

If we make the dance he's gonna get an extension and a raise.

If he doesn't he's likely on his way out, this year or next.

As I've already said, I'm a supporter of TNBB, the best thing for the program is for Martin to righten the ship and be here for the long haul.

I'm not trying to have an impact on whether if he goes, just as I'm sure you commenting here is not because you think it will have an impact on him staying. Unless I'm mistaken we're just here discussing TN's basketball fortunes, or lack of them.

And those fortunes have not been good the last 3 years nor do I think they will change. And no, I don't think Hart will be reading this thread to figure out if Zo needs to stay or go.

 

[bleedingTNorange]

I'm not trying to have an impact on whether if he goes, just as I'm sure you commenting here is not because you think it will have an impact on him staying. Unless I'm mistaken we're just here discussing TN's basketball fortunes, or lack of them.

And those fortunes have not been good the last 3 years nor do I think they will change. And no, I don't think Hart will be reading this thread to figure out if Zo needs to stay or go.

Alrighty.

Well good discussion. As I've said, I want what's best for TNBB, whoever is at the helm. I feel like there's a group that would rather Tennessee fail because Martin is the coach, than for them to be successful and he stick around.

 

[NYC Vol]

Alrighty.

Well good discussion. As I've said, I want what's best for TNBB, whoever is at the helm. I feel like there's a group that would rather Tennessee fail because Martin is the coach, than for them to be successful and he stick around.

I said it in another thread that the best possible outcome is for Martin to be our long term coach. What I didn't add there is that my best personal outcome is winning the lottery but I don't put much stock in that happening for me either.

Look, I've said my peace. I don't think he's a good coach. I don't base it on our record this year. It's a cumulative thing with Martin and, in fact, nothing I've seen this year has made me change the way I felt. So while I hope he will change his style to fit his personnel (that he's recruited, by the way) and have this team do a 180, I don't see it happening.

 

[Special Ed]

The only thing I don't like is that I can't start a thread for another 250 or so posts.

For a small fee, some posters will let you start a thread by proxy.

 

[germanicus]

NYC, I saw your twitter chat with the writer. Two things that struck me (1) He really is stuck on the notion that it is better for a school like Tennessee to be mediocre than to take a chance on being great. Focused on the "well it could be worse" argument, which is the same argument the Buzz supporters were bringing up pre-Pearl. (2) He never answered your question about what CCM does well. Just let that one hang out there.

I said it in another thread that the best possible outcome is for Martin to be our long term coach. What I didn't add there is that my best personal outcome is winning the lottery but I don't put much stock in that happening for me either.

Look, I've said my peace. I don't think he's a good coach. I don't base it on our record this year. It's a cumulative thing with Martin and, in fact, nothing I've seen this year has made me change the way I felt. So while I hope he will change his style to fit his personnel (that he's recruited, by the way) and have this team do a 180, I don't see it happening.

 

[patrick]

Great write up and very true.

I was adamant that we stick with Maymon and Stokes, but it's become evident to me Martin isn't good enough schematically to play those 2 and it outweigh what out opponents counter with. I think an experienced coach, a very good coach, could have Maymon and Stokes out there and it work, but honestly Martin is inexperienced and struggles with Xs and Os.

As many called for earlier, I've agreed with in recent weeks, and Dortch points out here...we've got A LOT of athletes, let them do what they do. Let's go 4 out 1 in, let's let Thompson start as he has been one of the few bright spots. This allows Barton to play more at his natural position, but adds a 2nd ball handler and good post passer on the court.

Our bigs just aren't good enough night in and night out defensively for us to be a very good defensive team. How do we counter, increase pressure with our guards and force teams into some mistakes. We rarely turn opponents over, combine that with that fg% we allow and it's a bad combination. Go with the 4 guard and our defensive fg% may not improve a whole lot, but our forced turnovers will resulting in better defensive efficiency.

I'm not Phil Jackson and can't promise this will work, but as Dortch points out its time to do something and this seems the most obvious. We also our thin at depth in the post, but deep at the wings, by playing one big foul trouble becomes less of a concern for our bigs IMO.

Well at least it only took you 2 and a third seasons to finally see and admit the truth about CCM.

:good!:

 

[GiveHimSixGoVols]

Alrighty.

Well good discussion. As I've said, I want what's best for TNBB, whoever is at the helm. I feel like there's a group that would rather Tennessee fail because Martin is the coach, than for them to be successful and he stick around.

Every fan wants 1 of 2 things, results or hope. The problem with Martin is he gives us niether. You have no way of knowing that we are better off with Martin continuing as the coach it could continue to set us back for him to continue to slide by.

 

[patrick]

Or he pulls it together and has some competitive seasons. I'm not saying it's gonna happen, just saying you have to consider the possibilities. Martin missing the tournament this season isn't any more of a given than him winning the SEC next season. I know you hate this example, but it's absolutely applicable whether you like it or not: what if Duke fired K after his first 3 seasons?

Average coaches are a dime a dozen.

 

[bleedingTNorange]

Every fan wants 1 of 2 things, results or hope. The problem with Martin is he gives us niether. You have no way of knowing that we are better off with Martin continuing as the coach it could continue to set us back for him to continue to slide by.

Martin beating Kentucky by 30, and being 3-0 against very good Florida teams has given me hope.

Unfortunately as the saying goes $hit in one hand and hope in another...you know the rest. He has to produce results this year, if he doesn't things will take care of themselves.

 

[whocaresgobobcats]

Martin beating Kentucky by 30, and being 3-0 against very good Florida teams has given me hope.

Unfortunately as the saying goes $hit in one hand and hope in another...you know the rest. He has to produce results this year, if he doesn't things will take care of themselves.

an NIT kentucky team win gives you hope? lol

turning those florida wins into consecutive NIT bids gives you hope? lol

 

[bleedingTNorange]

an NIT kentucky team win gives you hope? lol

turning those florida wins into consecutive NIT bids gives you hope? lol

Not sure where you read that?

If you need a lesson in reading comprehension, I heard Corbin, KY community center will be holding a free seminar tomorrow night...surely that's the area you're from.

 

[OrangeBalls]

It's never been black and white. There are a ton of variables. Wins and Losses are just a part of the scenario. People who watch basketball look deeper than just wins and losses. It's about the little things that add up to w's and L's. And if you watch the little things with Zo's teams, it doesn't add up.

But you tell me Chris…what is it that Zo's teams do well? What's Zo known for?

So he must really be bad at beating unranked teams then, huh?

Once again, tell me specifically what his teams do well. Here's mine to get you started. They rebound well.

But give me something. If he's a good coach, it shouldn't be difficult. Does he motivate well? Do his teams defend well? Do they outscheme opponents? Do they get great shots out of time outs? It should be like shooting fish in a barrel if we're talking about a coach that is good enough to lead our basketball team. You couldn't ask for an easier questions.

I've asked this same question a number of times and no one can answer it. Why? Because no one knows what a Cuonzo coached team does well. He's an average coach at best that has no calling card.

When you struggle to beat USC Upstate at home, get neutered on a neutral court by UTEP and then get embarrassed at home by an average NC State team then I don't know what else proof you need that Martin is in over his head. Maybe he'll pull a rabbit out of his ass, but I'm not holding my breath.

Anyone that has watched the game of basketball and is honest with themselves knows what the ultimate end result is going to be with Martin. He's not going to magically become a good coach overnight. We just have to hope the talent on hand can overcome his coaching deficiencies.

 

[tim]

Wow. We have to "take pride in shooting the ball". I'm just not sure what to say.

Most kids who play bb really detest scoring points. Didnt ya know?