Chris Dortch: Vols running out of time to pad NCAA resume

#26
#26
Chris4Vols22 said:
If you fire a coach for mediocre results instead of failing results, that's an incredibly high risk. We would almost certainly lose the incoming freshman class, Cameron Justice, and possibly players currently on the roster that committed to Zo (notably Thompson and Davis). And you can only hope you're able to make a home run hire or hope that a successful mid major can step into the SEC with no problems. Odds are just not on your side.
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And if you keep him then you have to give him a contract extension and prolong the misery another three or four years. Get rid of him at the end of this year. Pain in life is inevitable, suffering is optional.
 
#27
#27
knowthevols said:
And if you keep him then you have to give him a contract extension and prolong the misery another three or four years. Get rid of him at the end of this year. Pain in life is inevitable, suffering is optional.
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Or he pulls it together and has some competitive seasons. I'm not saying it's gonna happen, just saying you have to consider the possibilities. Martin missing the tournament this season isn't any more of a given than him winning the SEC next season. I know you hate this example, but it's absolutely applicable whether you like it or not: what if Duke fired K after his first 3 seasons?
 
#28
#28
Chris4Vols22 said:
If you fire a coach for mediocre results instead of failing results, that's an incredibly high risk. We would almost certainly lose the incoming freshman class, Cameron Justice, and possibly players currently on the roster that committed to Zo (notably Thompson and Davis). And you can only hope you're able to make a home run hire or hope that a successful mid major can step into the SEC with no problems. Odds are just not on your side.
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As I said to Decourcey, mediocre results are failing results. You either make the tourney consistently or you're failing. What do we have to lose if we make a bad hire? Missing the NIT? Heavens forbid!

There's no such thing as mediocrity in college hoops. You're either on the inside or outside. We're on the outside.
 
#29
#29
Chris4Vols22 said:
Or he pulls it together and has some competitive seasons. I'm not saying it's gonna happen, just saying you have to consider the possibilities. Martin missing the tournament this season isn't any more of a given than him winning the SEC next season. I know you hate this example, but it's absolutely applicable whether you like it or not: what if Duke fired K after his first 3 seasons?
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I despise the "Coach K" or "Nick Saban" corollary. How many other coaches, outside of K, have missed the tourney their first 3 years and then been uber successful?

And I wasn't around to watch K back then but I suspect he probably coached pretty well but didn't have the horses. Is there anyone that watches us play and say "Hey, UT does X or Y really well and that guy can sure coach"?
 
#32
#32
NYC Vol said:
As I said to Decourcey, mediocre results are failing results. You either make the tourney consistently or you're failing. What do we have to lose if we make a bad hire? Missing the NIT? Heavens forbid!

There's no such thing as mediocrity in college hoops. You're either on the inside or outside. We're on the outside.
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I'm sorry, but there's a big difference between going 19-15 and 10-22.
 
#35
#35
Chris4Vols22 said:
Or he pulls it together and has some competitive seasons. I'm not saying it's gonna happen, just saying you have to consider the possibilities. Martin missing the tournament this season isn't any more of a given than him winning the SEC next season. I know you hate this example, but it's absolutely applicable whether you like it or not: what if Duke fired K after his first 3 seasons?
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The Duke/coach K reference is equal to someone on the football side using the old "Saban lost to Louisiana Lafayette his first year" excuse . It doesn't hold water there either.
 
#36
#36
Chris4Vols22 said:
If you fire a coach for mediocre results instead of failing results, that's an incredibly high risk. We would almost certainly lose the incoming freshman class, Cameron Justice, and possibly players currently on the roster that committed to Zo (notably Thompson and Davis). And you can only hope you're able to make a home run hire or hope that a successful mid major can step into the SEC with no problems. Odds are just not on your side.
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Failing is not making the tournament. These last two years have been failures. This year looks no different so far.....
 
#38
#38
Alright, if that's what you guys think, you will be calling for the new coach's head every year. Why give anyone a chance if they miss the tourney in the first year? I don't remember people calling for Martin's head at the end of his first season.
 
#39
#39
Chris4Vols22 said:
Alright, if that's what you guys think, you will be calling for the new coach's head every year. Why give anyone a chance if they miss the tourney in the first year? I don't remember people calling for Martin's head at the end of his first season.
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Because there's a gray area. With me it's not black and white. But if you're still stuck missing the tourney after year 3, that's mediocrity and unacceptable.

I'll take a chance on being 10-22 to be 25-8 rather than miss the tourney each year.
 
#40
#40
Chris4Vols22 said:
Alright, if that's what you guys think, you will be calling for the new coach's head every year. Why give anyone a chance if they miss the tourney in the first year? I don't remember people calling for Martin's head at the end of his first season.
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everybody knows this is CM's most talented team from #1-#10 yet and his 3rd year on the job after 2 disappointing NIT seasons. The lack of coaching and basic adjustments has been obvious. 6-4 is flat out unacceptable and was flat out avoidable. That's a far cry from wanting to axe a coach after one tough year on the job.
 
#41
#41
Chris4Vols22 said:
Alright, if that's what you guys think, you will be calling for the new coach's head every year. Why give anyone a chance if they miss the tourney in the first year? I don't remember people calling for Martin's head at the end of his first season.
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He's had three years. It's ok to let go.
 
#42
#42
NYC Vol said:
Because there's a gray area. With me it's not black and white. But if you're still stuck missing the tourney after year 3, that's mediocrity and unacceptable.

I'll take a chance on being 10-22 to be 25-8 rather than miss the tourney each year.
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Oh so now it's not black and white and missing the tourney is acceptable? And we missed the tourney this season? Didn't even hear about the brackets being released.
 
#43
#43
Chris4Vols22 said:
Oh so now it's not black and white and missing the tourney is acceptable? And we missed the tourney this season? Didn't even hear about the brackets being released.
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do you have the same automatic expectations each year, regardless of the players/team/circumstances?
 
#44
#44
Spartacavolus said:
do you have the same automatic expectations each year, regardless of the players/team/circumstances?
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No, that would be unreasonable. How would I expect Martin's first team to get a tourney bid? How would I not expect this team to not get in the tourney? That's exactly what I'm disagreeing with.
 
#45
#45
Chris4Vols22 said:
Oh so now it's not black and white and missing the tourney is acceptable? And we missed the tourney this season? Didn't even hear about the brackets being released.
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It's never been black and white. There are a ton of variables. Wins and Losses are just a part of the scenario. People who watch basketball look deeper than just wins and losses. It's about the little things that add up to w's and L's. And if you watch the little things with Zo's teams, it doesn't add up.

But you tell me Chris…what is it that Zo's teams do well? What's Zo known for?
 
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#46
#46
NYC Vol said:
It's never been black and white. There are a ton of variables. Wins and Losses are just a part of the scenario. People who watch basketball look deeper than just wins and losses. It's about the little things that add up to w's and L's. And if you watch the little things with Zo's teams, it doesn't add up.

But you tell me Chris…what is it that Zo's teams do well? What's Zo known for?
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If we keep racking up bad losses, then Martin is probably not going to pan out. History tells us that the best basketball has yet to come this season. I just disagree with firing him now/writing off this season when we're not even halfway through it.
 
#47
#47
Chris4Vols22 said:
No, that would be unreasonable. How would I expect Martin's first team to get a tourney bid? How would I not expect this team to not get in the tourney? That's exactly what I'm disagreeing with.
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You were asking why there weren't as many people raising hell in his first year and last, were you not? Maybe I read your post wrong
 
#48
#48
Here's the issue as I see it...too many on here want us to act as though we are a perennial power, a blue blood program, WE ARE NOT.

Do we have the resources to be? Sure. The fan base? Absolutely.

The issue is our ADs have never, and don't appear to be looking for us to be that way, or act in that manner. Hart went cheap with Butch, and nothing leads me to believe he wouldn't do the same with a basketball search.

If you were saying, if Martin is fired we are willing to pay top money for a coach. We will back up a brinks truck and we are willing to pay top dollar for a coach, then hey go for it, but we aren't.

You're basically saying, fire Martin for winning 20 games and barely missing the dance to likely replace him with a similar caliber coach and hope you catch lightning in a bottle.
 
#50
#50
Chris4Vols22 said:
If we keep racking up bad losses, then Martin is probably not going to pan out. History tells us that the best basketball has yet to come this season. I just disagree with firing him now/writing off this season when we're not even halfway through it.
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I've never advocated firing him now or prior to the season is over. That would be silly. But I will give my opinion on what I expect to happen the rest of the way. I don't see us becoming a juggernaut. I don't see Zo coaching this team up. Not too much will change.

Hope is not a strategy. Doing the same thing over and over and thinking something is going to change is the definition of instanity.
 
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