Chris Dortch: Vols running out of time to pad NCAA resume

#78
#78
NYC Vol said:
Must have been a hell of a conference to finish 2nd and not even be considered (according to the committee) as a bubble team.

When you say "didn't play much", do you consider 20 minutes "not much"?

Lisen man, you can quote whatever stats you want. Any coach in the country, in hoops, has some decent wins. It's basketball. But we're 6-4 with Zo's supposed best team and the team is doing the same crap as the previous two years. If that's acceptable to you (or others), we may just have a fanbase that accepts mediocrity. And that's a bigger disappointment than anything.

I'm still waiting to hear what you think our team does well. How bout this question. In games that we play, do you think that Zo gives us a schematic advantage? Asked another way, do you think that there are games that if we switched coaches that the other team would beat us because of Zo?
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If you're not gonna read my posts why ask questions? I've already answered your question.

If you don't think Martin has shown flashes then you're blinder than Bop.
 
#79
#79
bleedingTNorange said:
Typically their calling cards when winning have been rebounding and taking care of the ball.

And yes, they've beaten teams they probably shouldn't and lost to teams they probably shouldn't have.

That's my point, 1 or 2 games ok maybe it's a coincidence we won, but Martin has a pretty good track record against national championship coaches. I don't know the record against ranked teams, but off of memory it's above .500.

That's the aggravating part to me, we've shown flashes of being a good team, but it hasn't been consistent.
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Who are the national champion coaches he's played? Donovan and Cal?

We are the typical team that has an "All Star" that can beat anyone when he plays great but are in trouble otherwise. If McRae gets hot, watch out. If he doesn't, watch out the other way.

We're obviously not going to change each other's minds. We'll just watch the season play out. I think that it will play out with us continuing to play the same way we have the first couple years. We'll lose some games we shouldn't and probably win a game or two that surprises people. The games, as last year, will be dependent on McRae playing great (last year it was McRae or Golden).
 
#80
#80
bleedingTNorange said:
Why? Because it doesn't fit what you're saying lol
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you can say those smartass comments all you want but everybody reading these threads lately knows who knows wtf they are talking about and who doesn't.

It's taken you 10 games to figure out the 4-1 suits the team better. Welcome to the land of the obvious, 1/3 thru the season.
 
#81
#81
Spartacavolus said:
On 12/22/12? Horse****
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Uhm no, on march something. In other words off the info he has he's damn good at predicting who's gonna make the tourney. Off of the information given at the point of the season we are the first team out, at 6-4. Beat Morehead State tomorrow night and back in we likely go.
 
#82
#82
NYC Vol said:
Who are the national champion coaches he's played? Donovan and Cal?

We are the typical team that has an "All Star" that can beat anyone when he plays great but are in trouble otherwise. If McRae gets hot, watch out. If he doesn't, watch out the other way.

We're obviously not going to change each other's minds. We'll just watch the season play out. I think that it will play out with us continuing to play the same way we have the first couple years. We'll lose some games we shouldn't and probably win a game or two that surprises people. The games, as last year, will be dependent on McRae playing great (last year it was McRae or Golden).
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And Jim Calhoun

Jordan McRae played 10 minutes and had 2 points in that game btw lol
 
#83
#83
Spartacavolus said:
you can say those smartass comments all you want but everybody reading these threads lately knows who knows wtf they are talking about and who doesn't.

It's taken you 10 games to figure out the 4-1 suits the team better. Welcome to the land of the obvious, 1/3 thru the season.
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Still waiting on the season forecast almighty one...
 
#84
#84
bleedingTNorange said:
Uhm no, on march something. In other words off the info he has he's damn good at predicting who's gonna make the tourney. Off of the information given at the point of the season we are the first team out, at 6-4. Beat Morehead State tomorrow night and back in we likely go.
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I remember you coming up with some obscure bracketologist at the end of Martin's first year and you were going to post the name of a team that was mid 70's rpi that went to the dance without winning their conference tournament. I'm still waiting.
 
#86
#86
bleedingTNorange said:
If you're not gonna read my posts why ask questions? I've already answered your question.

If you don't think Martin has shown flashes then you're blinder than Bop.
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So we rebound well and take care of the ball well? So I guess Zo's strategy of playing hard is going over well. So we do 2 things well, possibly one that is influenced by our staff (taking care of the ball).

Yet national, we are considered below average and mostly "poor" in the following:

1- Assists to turnover

2- Def fg%

3- Asssits to made FG

4- Assists per game

5- Steals

6- Off FG%

The list goes on and on. I thought you could say something like "Zo's teams play defense well". In the stats that the NCAA tracks we don't rank in the top half of anything during Zo's career except rebounding and then turnovers this year.
 
#87
#87
knowthevols said:
I remember you coming up with some obscure bracketologist at the end of Martin's first year and you were going to post the name of a team that was mid 70's rpi that went to the dance without winning their conference tournament. I'm still waiting.
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Huh? What are you even talking about?

There was a bracketologist that had us in, I simply pointed him out because he had a good track record.

Keep trying though, it's cute.
 
#89
#89
NYC Vol said:
So we rebound well and take care of the ball well? So I guess Zo's strategy of playing hard is going over well. So we do 2 things well, possibly one that is influenced by our staff (taking care of the ball).

Yet national, we are considered below average and mostly "poor" in the following:

1- Assists to turnover

2- Def fg%

3- Asssits to made FG

4- Assists per game

5- Steals

6- Off FG%

The list goes on and on. I thought you could say something like "Zo's teams play defense well". In the stats that the NCAA tracks we don't rank in the top half of anything during Zo's career except rebounding and then turnovers this year.
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Why would I say they play defense well, they don't. It would take an idiot to say that this team has played well defensively.
 
#90
#90
bleedingTNorange said:
Huh? What are you even talking about?

There was a bracketologist that had us in, I simply pointed him out because he had a good track record.

Keep trying though, it's cute.
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You know what's cute? Is your consistency in arguing that Zo is a good coach (I guess that's what you're doing) despite all evidence to the contrary. I was on here last year when you fought the good fight (though I didn't post). The evidence keeps piling up but you're going down swinging.

How often do you watch us play and say "man, thankfully we have Zo on our sideline. We have an advantage over "XYZ University".
 
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#91
#91
Spartacavolus said:
I don't prognosticate. This is about the team right now and where they should be. You'd rather talk about 2011, eff stats, jim Calhoun, lunardi, and whatever other bs can take away from the obvious points that you cant debate.
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Right now we are 6-4 and shouldn't be, I don't see anyone saying they're happy with where we currently are, wtf are you going on about? Nobody is saying change isn't needed, in fact most have said he needs to do something different.

What people are saying is that through 1/3 of the season in which we've played poorly, we are still basically considered a bubble team. If we make the changes sooner rather than later like in past year this team will skate into the dance and all of this will become great comedy.
 
#92
#92
bleedingTNorange said:
Why would I say they play defense well, they don't. It would take an idiot to say that this team has played well defensively.
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So in basketball, a game that relies on you to keep the opponent from scoring and for you to put the ball in the bucket you surmise the only things we do well is rebound and hold on to the ball?

We don't play well defensively, right?
We don't play well offensively, right?

But we rebound well and take care of the ball. Obviously our coaching is doing a great job.
 
#93
#93
NYC Vol said:
Do you not see an issue if we're in year 3 and you're citing the first year trying to prove a point…a first year in which we didn't even go to the tourney?
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I don't get why you're dealing in absolutes it would seem...I'm not sitting here pumping roses and saying we are exactly where we should be, wtf. Nobody is happy with where we are, but the season isn't even close to over, and right now according to the best bracketologist out there we are right there even with our horrible start.
 
#94
#94
NYC Vol said:
You know what's cute? Is your consistency in arguing that Zo is a good coach (I guess that's what you're doing) despite all evidence to the contrary. I was on here last year when you fought the good fight (though I didn't post). The evidence keeps piling up but you're going down swinging.

How often do you watch us play and say "man, thankfully we have Zo on our sideline. We have an advantage over "XYZ University".
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There you go again. I'll bold so maybe you'll read it... nobody is saying they're happy with Zo. Nobody is saying they're happy with this start. Nobody is saying give Zo an extension tonight. Nobody is saying Zo is the second coming of Phil Jackson. Nobody is saying Zo will lead us to the promised land.

Ok?
 
#95
#95
bleedingTNorange said:
There you go again. I'll bold so maybe you'll read it... nobody is saying they're happy with Zo. Nobody is saying they're happy with this start. Nobody is saying give Zo an extension tonight. Nobody is saying Zo is the second coming of Phil Jackson. Nobody is saying Zo will lead us to the promised land.

Ok?
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Ok. So what are you arguing? That we are not good but there is a ton of time in the season to go? Why are you taking offense to the folks that are pointing out that it's going to be very hard for the rest of the season to go our way when Zo has shown that his teams consistently play at an average or below average level?
 
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#97
#97
NYC Vol said:
So in basketball, a game that relies on you to keep the opponent from scoring and for you to put the ball in the bucket you surmise the only things we do well is rebound and hold on to the ball?

We don't play well defensively, right?
We don't play well offensively, right?

But we rebound well and take care of the ball. Obviously our coaching is doing a great job.
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I'm sure our coaching staffs plan is to suck offensively and defensively, you're right lol.

Look at those numbers against say, ranked teams the past 2 years. How about against SEC teams the last 2 years?

Obviously we haven't been good enough in either category to be a top 25 or even a tourney team, that's evident. However we have been good enough in those categories against ranked teams to win more than we lose I'm fairly certain, and definitely against national championship winning coaches.

That's my entire point that you seem to be missing, no he hasn't done a good enough job, but IMO he has definitely shown that he can coach his team well enough to beat very good teams, the key IMO is being consistent.
 
#98
#98
Here's my issue, bleed.

Check out this link: NCAA® National Rankings

You can hover over the year up top and toggle back the last 3 years. Everything about our team is getting worse (except, as you pointed out, our ability to limit turnovers). As Pearl's players have moved on, we've become a worse defensive team. A worse offensive team. Our turnover margin is very good, but only because we don't turn it over. We don't get it back which limits easy bucket opportunities.

I just think in year 3, when you get your own players in the program, things should be trending up. It's not.
 
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#99
#99
bleedingTNorange said:
I'm sure our coaching staffs plan is to suck offensively and defensively, you're right lol.

Look at those numbers against say, ranked teams the past 2 years. How about against SEC teams the last 2 years?

Obviously we haven't been good enough in either category to be a top 25 or even a tourney team, that's evident. However we have been good enough in those categories against ranked teams to win more than we lose I'm fairly certain, and definitely against national championship winning coaches.

That's my entire point that you seem to be missing, no he hasn't done a good enough job, but IMO he has definitely shown that he can coach his team well enough to beat very good teams, the key IMO is being consistent.
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Huh? I'm sure that's not his plan but he has no clue how to make us a decent offensive or defensive team. He may not be trying to be a terrible coach but he is.

As far as beating "very good" teams, who have they been? The best teams he's beaten have been teams that topped out at #5 and #6 seeds in the tourney. And every one of those have been at home except for the win at Fla.

And your argument that he's been a great coach in those games but not in others doesn't hold water. It's basketball. Sometimes teams just win. The worst coaches in the country win games because of the sheer volume.

Look, I think it's great that you really want Zo to succeed. I did too. He's not going to. If you watch this team and say "That's a well coached team", I don't know what to tell you. It's not.
 
#100
#100
NYC Vol said:
Ok. So what are you arguing? That we are not good but there is a ton of time in the season to go? Why are you taking offense to the folks that are pointing out that it's going to be very hard for the rest of the season to go our way when Zo has shown that his teams consistently play at an average or below average level?
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Average is typically associated with middle or median, no? Obviously we are better than average in the NCAA. We are obviously better than average in the SEC?

So by who's standards or definition are we "average".

Given SEC winning % we average about 11 wins in SEC play. So assuming we go 9-4 or 8-5 OOC at worst you're talking on "average" we would end up with 19-20 wins regular season. That would put us squarely on the bubble or in, hardly ready to write the season off or declare it a lost season already.
 
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