Church or Jail

#53
#53
lawgator1 said:
1) You can't have the judiciary order people to go to church;

or in the alternative 2) You can't tell people they are going to go to jail unless they go to church;

WITHOUT VIOLATING THE SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE. Among other things.
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it's not making anyone go to church.
 
#54
#54
I agree. if there is an option it isn't technically "making" you go to church. YOu don't have to go, you can go to jail like everybody else.
 
#56
#56
Not saying it's a good option, but I don't think it's unconstitutional. The only issue is that there aren't other religious congregations in town... so it clearly favors Christians.
 
#59
#59
KiffinKiller said:
He's somewhat correct. Most AA stuff has Christ involved.
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A lot of those programs say you should seek help from a higher power, and for some that's Christ. But they've strived hard not to force that since the higher power can literally be anything.


golfballs03 said:
it's not making anyone go to church.
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theFallGuy said:
I agree. if there is an option it isn't technically "making" you go to church. YOu don't have to go, you can go to jail like everybody else.
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golfballs03 said:
Not saying it's a good option, but I don't think it's unconstitutional. The only issue is that there aren't other religious congregations in town... so it clearly favors Christians.
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The reason you are incorrect is that the law recognizes that sometimes what appears to be a "choice" really isn't. Its the same thing with school prayer. You tell the 6 year old Muslim kid he doesn't have to say a prayer, but come on, in the school setting that's incredibly stigmatizing and pressure-laden.

This is far worse. Saying, well, got to jail for a month or go to church once a week for a year, its coercion.
 
#61
#61
lawgator1 said:
A lot of those programs say you should seek help from a higher power, and for some that's Christ. But they've strived hard not to force that since the higher power can literally be anything.

The reason you are incorrect is that the law recognizes that sometimes what appears to be a "choice" really isn't. Its the same thing with school prayer. You tell the 6 year old Muslim kid he doesn't have to say a prayer, but come on, in the school setting that's incredibly stigmatizing and pressure-laden.

This is far worse. Saying, well, got to jail for a month or go to church once a week for a year, its coercion.
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It's a fuzzy area
 
#67
#67
lawgator1 said:
1) You can't have the judiciary order people to go to church;

or in the alternative 2) You can't tell people they are going to go to jail unless they go to church;

WITHOUT VIOLATING THE SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE. Among other things.
Click to expand...

But can mandate health care.......awesome
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#70
#70
Does the option actually include the phrase "church every Sunday for 52 weeks" or something to that effect? If it does, then yes, it is unconstitutional and showing favoritism to a particular, or in this case a group, of religious sects.
 
#71
#71
emainvol said:
Does the option actually include the phrase "church every Sunday for 52 weeks" or something to that effect? If it does, then yes, it is unconstitutional and showing favoritism to a particular, or in this case a group, of religious sects.
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It is still borderline even without that, however.
 
#72
#72
emainvol said:
Does the option actually include the phrase "church every Sunday for 52 weeks" or something to that effect? If it does, then yes, it is unconstitutional and showing favoritism to a particular, or in this case a group, of religious sects.
Click to expand...

lord have mercy your name is familiar
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#74
#74
lawgator1 said:
1) You can't have the judiciary order people to go to church;

You are absolutely right. In this case they're not.

or in the alternative 2) You can't tell people they are going to go to jail unless they go to church;

They're not, they have the choice to pay a fine, go to jail, or go to church. They are not throwing them in jail because they are not going to church as you make it out.

WITHOUT VIOLATING THE SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE. Among other things.

Given the above, this is obviously wrong.
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Starting this week, under a new program called Operation ROC (Restore Our Community), local judges in Bay Minette, Alabama, will give those found guilty of misdemeanors the choice of serving out their time in jail, paying a fine or attending church each Sunday for a year.
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If you want to grip about whether its a good idea, whether it would work.....fine. Just because the ACLU screams "unconstitutional" doesn't mean its the "gospel".
 
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