Climate Change Report

#2,576
#2,576
hog88 said:
I say that the oil companies give them what they want. Stop selling product in those states and cities and run ads on the local TV explaining why. Let the voters decide if they want to continue down that imbecilic road.
Click to expand...
The audacity required to do this is no longer part of stuff innately inside Americans anymore.
 
  • Like
Reactions: SpaceCoastVol, Gandalf and hog88
#2,579
#2,579
  • Like
Reactions: CagleMtnVol, rekinhavoc and Rickyvol77
#2,580
#2,580
DC_Vol said:
Did the government pay some of their bills or something?

Or it is like calling your standard deduction on your personal taxes a subsidy?
Click to expand...

If we’re talking about ads that let people choose, why not tell the whole truth? The truth is that private domestic energy companies have foregone billions in tax revenue. Do you deny this?
 
Last edited:
#2,581
#2,581
OHvol40 said:
If we’re talking about ads that let people choose, why not tell the whole truth. The truth is that private domestic energy companies have foregone billions in tax revenue. Do you deny this?
Click to expand...

So your idea is to run a political ad lamenting the tax dollars not paid because of the system said governing people set up? Brilliance.
 
  • Like
Reactions: hog88
#2,582
#2,582
#2,583
#2,583
OHvol40 said:
If we’re talking about ads that let people choose, why not tell the whole truth. The truth is that private domestic energy companies have foregone billions in tax revenue. Do you deny this?
Click to expand...

I would need to know more about what you mean. That’s why I asked if the government had paid some of their expenses.

If you think they should have paid more taxes, then the broad questions i would have are:

1 - what is the baseline you are measuring from for this billions of foregone tax revenue

2 - which tax laws were broken by the company

Usually my standpoint on taxes are: companies and people want to pay as little as possible, and they are free to minimize their total tax obligation while stating within the laws that are dictated by the government.
 
  • Like
Reactions: hog88
#2,586
#2,586
OHvol40 said:
The provisions that they lobby a corrupt government for? Sure.
Click to expand...

I’m no water carrier for oil companies, but it’s hard to fault them for following the laws on the books.

Let’s talk about you to make the parallel. Do you gross your tax bill up to undo the child subsidy? Or the standard deduction? Or any other subsidy you claim on your taxes? Or do you assume your following the laws set forth by the IRS and your final tax bill is your final obligation?
 
  • Like
Reactions: 0nelilreb, UT_Dutchman and hog88
#2,587
#2,587
OHvol40 said:
If we’re talking about ads that let people choose, why not tell the whole truth? The truth is that private domestic energy companies have foregone billions in tax revenue. Do you deny this?
Click to expand...

You mean by taking the deductions afforded them in the tax code, deductions that are afforded to most every industry?
 
  • Like
Reactions: SpaceCoastVol and UT_Dutchman
#2,588
#2,588
OHvol40 said:
https://cen.acs.org/articles/89/i51/Long-History-US-Energy-Subsidies.html

Fact Sheet | Fossil Fuel Subsidies: A Closer Look at Tax Breaks and Societal Costs (2019) | White Papers | EESI
Click to expand...

You mean things like this when you say "subsidy"?

Similarly, several measures to aid oil companies passed in the early 1900s remain of key importance to the industry, Healey notes. These include one provision passed in 1916 to speed up depreciation of drilling costs. A second one, the oil depletion allowance, which became law in 1926, gives oil companies a tax break for depleting an oil reservoir. President Obama has sought to end these breaks but has been overwhelmed by the opposition from industry and its congressional allies.
Click to expand...

Sounds a lot like being able to depreciate an asset and writing off R&D costs. So ok, let's get rid of all asset depreciation and R&D write-offs for every industry. Good with that?

If you really want to dig into these "subsidies" you'll find similar tax laws for most businesses.
 
  • Like
Reactions: UT_Dutchman
#2,589
#2,589
DC_Vol said:
I’m no water carrier for oil companies, but it’s hard to fault them for following the laws on the books.

Let’s talk about you to make the parallel. Do you gross your tax bill up to undo the child subsidy? Or the standard deduction? Or any other subsidy you claim on your taxes? Or do you assume your following the laws set forth by the IRS and your final tax bill is your final obligation?
Click to expand...
I let my childhood-friend-turned CPA lay it out for me, haven’t been steered wrong yet lol.

If you actually read the links I posted, the difference between, say, the timber industry in it’s hay day and current fossil fuel industries and the tax incentives received is clear. All of them received incentives that supported initial infrastructure and initial investment, the difference lies in that there was no big timber lobby that helped maintain those initial incentives, whereas for fossil fuels, they have become a mainstay, even long after the fossil fuel industry became enormously profitable.
 
#2,590
#2,590
hog88 said:
You mean things like this when you say "subsidy"?



Sounds a lot like being able to depreciate an asset and writing off R&D costs. So ok, let's get rid of all asset depreciation and R&D write-offs for every industry. Good with that?

If you really want to dig into these "subsidies" you'll find similar tax laws for most businesses.
Click to expand...
That’s not all, there are some breaks almost exclusive to this industry, but it’s a start.
 
#2,591
#2,591
OHvol40 said:
I let my childhood-friend-turned CPA lay it out for me, haven’t been steered wrong yet lol.

If you actually read the links I posted, the difference between, say, the timber industry in it’s hay day and current fossil fuel industries and the tax incentives received is clear. All of them received incentives that supported initial infrastructure and initial investment, the difference lies in that there was no big timber lobby that helped maintain those initial incentives, whereas for fossil fuels, they have become a mainstay, even long after the fossil fuel industry became enormously profitable.
Click to expand...

My point is your beef should be with the politicians who could undo them tomorrow.

You can no more expect a corporation to pay more in taxes than I would expect you to pay more than you owe using the laws set forth by the IRS.
 
#2,592
#2,592
DC_Vol said:
My point is your beef should be with the politicians who could undo them tomorrow.

You can no more expect a corporation to pay more in taxes than I would expect you to pay more than you owe using the laws set forth by the IRS.
Click to expand...
Understood. My point, in response to your point, is that this industry has undue influence on the people who write those laws. Essentially, they are writing the tax code for themselves.
 
#2,594
#2,594
OHvol40 said:
That’s not all, there are some breaks almost exclusive to this industry, but it’s a start.
Click to expand...

There are special tax considerations in the code for many different industries. Pharmaceutical, medical, fishing, farming all have specific “subsidies“ as you would call them written into the tax code so when will you start condemning them?
 
  • Like
Reactions: UT_Dutchman and VolStrom
#2,595
#2,595
hog88 said:
I say that the oil companies give them what they want. Stop selling product in those states and cities and run ads on the local TV explaining why. Let the voters decide if they want to continue down that imbecilic road.
Click to expand...
Almost sounds like a majority rules mindset. You feeling okay?
 
#2,596
#2,596
DC_Vol said:
Did the government pay some of their bills or something?

Or it is like calling your standard deduction on your personal taxes a subsidy?
Click to expand...
I would go with the or something. It's like allowing people to grow crops on your property and you charge some and not others for the right.
 
#2,597
#2,597
luthervol said:
I would go with the or something. It's like allowing people to grow crops on your property and you charge some and not others for the right.
Click to expand...

Where does the oil companies get to pump oil on government land without paying royalties?
 
#2,598
#2,598
hog88 said:
There are special tax considerations in the code for many different industries. Pharmaceutical, medical, fishing, farming all have specific “subsidies“ as you would call them written into the tax code so when will you start condemning them?
Click to expand...
You won’t see me defend the pharmaceutical or medical subsidies.

Food industries are a bit unique. I think “small” operations getting breaks doesn’t bother me, but we all know “small” farms in that sector have dwindled dramatically.
 
New posts
You must log in or register to reply here.

VN Store



Back
Top