Clinton counting on "unfortunate accident" for Obama?

#51
#51
No, I'm saying she chose words that opportunists like yourself were able to spin.

Don't you think if she wanted to say America was an awful place and she hated every moment of her time here, she would have just said it? Or are you trying to say that she "made her point" using a super secret racist code?

I still don't see how, "I'm proud of my country" has anything to do with racisim.

That's an awful brave term to throw around. Maybe it gives you more peace hating her because she's black, if you think she's racist first, but you really shouldn't make up something so harsh just to feel better about yourself.

(If that's what your doing. I'm only throwing out guesses because you've had more than a handful of chances to throw out reasons and so far it comes down to one sentance that you took out of context.)
 
#52
#52
For me it is only one comment so not that big of a deal.

I don't see the comment as racist - it does have racial overtones though (suggesting the country finally supports a black man). I don't believe she is any more or less racist than the typical American.

For a team that claims to be unifiers, they certainly have a habit of making comments that divide.
 
#53
#53
VolzRChamps said:
No, I'm saying she chose words that opportunists like yourself were able to spin.

Don't you think if she wanted to say America was an awful place and she hated every moment of her time here, she would have just said it? Or are you trying to say that she "made her point" using a super secret racist code?

I still don't see how, "I'm proud of my country" has anything to do with racisim.

That's an awful brave term to throw around. Maybe it gives you more peace hating her because she's black, if you think she's racist first, but you really shouldn't make up something so harsh just to feel better about yourself.

(If that's what your doing. I'm only throwing out guesses because you've had more than a handful of chances to throw out reasons and so far it comes down to one sentance that you took out of context.)
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you forgot the "for the first time in my life" qualifier, which made it absolutely racist.

I'm not spinning because I have no audience to sway and how would it make me feel better about me? Both comments are absurd. I'm giving my opinion because based on the holistic picture of the candidate. My vote isn't about whether he and his cronies are racist because I doanmt really care about that. I vote my pocketbook and won't change that. Obama's the worst candidate for my pocketbook of any in my lifetime.
 
#54
#54
BigPapaVol said:
you forgot the "for the first time in my life" qualifier, which made it absolutely racist.

I'm not spinning because I have no audience to sway and how would it make me feel better about me? Both comments are absurd. I'm giving my opinion because based on the holistic picture of the candidate. My vote isn't about whether he and his cronies are racist because I doanmt really care about that. I vote my pocketbook and won't change that. Obama's the worst candidate for my pocketbook of any in my lifetime.
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Spot on BPV, I couldn't agree more.
 
#55
#55
UTLCA said:
It might be true, but it's still incredibly poor taste.She almost insinuated that she's going to stick in the race because some Turkish guy might run through a hotel kitchen and shoot Obama dead.

Sorry, but it's inexcusable and yet another testament to the terrible personality of that horrible shrew.
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I guess bama's the tasteful one now:eek:lol:
 
#56
#56
VolzRChamps said:
So, "This is the first time I'm proud to be an American" = racisim and no one here thinks that's a streatch?


Also, the comment was made in refference to her husband, the love of her life, running for and actually winning a bid for President of the United States. I not only understand the comment, but I understand the context that she intended it. It had to be, and continues to be a very proud moment for her. So much so that I can understand her saying that. Rivals will ofcourse take that and try to turn it into a comment that she was never proud to be an American before, but that's foolishness and a huge streatch to try to find something wrong with someone, just for the sake of trying to find something.
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I hadn't heard the comments or the analysis of such comments until now, but the racism of the comment can be debated.

Where I have a problem is the fact that she admittedly wasn't proud to be an American until her husband is a very serious presidential candidate.

She wasn't proud to be an American when he was voted into the Senate?

That shows a very selfish viewpoint out of her anyway...she's only proud when her husband is considered to take a great office, but at no other time?

Again, the racism is debatable, but the sharp cynicism of the comment is unspinnable, because she said what she said, and if Obama is not voted president than I hope America isn't good enough and she can get the heck out.

But she won't...because for a wealthy person (such as herself) there is no better place on earth.
 
#57
#57
BigPapaVol said:
you forgot the "for the first time in my life" qualifier, which made it absolutely racist.
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Sorry, but I don't see the logic in this. I could understand an argument that this comment shows she is unappreciative or lacks patriotism. But racist? That's ridiculous.

From the time I heard the comment, my first thought was that she was proud to see such a diverse crowd getting involved politically (side note: apparently Obama has such a large number of individual supporters that the FEC can't process the donations fast enough). She hadn't witnessed something like this in her lifetime. Was it poor phrasing? Probably. Was it politically risky? Yes - obviously, based on her reaction. Was it racist? My God, I hope not. If so, then I've probably said more racist things than I can imagine.
 
#58
#58
volinbham said:
For me it is only one comment so not that big of a deal.

I don't see the comment as racist - it does have racial overtones though (suggesting the country finally supports a black man). I don't believe she is any more or less racist than the typical American.

For a team that claims to be unifiers, they certainly have a habit of making comments that divide.
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I agree with all of the bold, but in terms of the overtones, only if you choose to see it that way. My previous post shows my interpretation.

As an Obama supporter, I also regret some comments that seem to divide rather than unite. I also wish Bruce Pearl didn't get a divorce after 20+ years of marriage. In both instances I see those as the exception, not the rule.

Once we make up our mind on who we're going to vote for, we look for evidence to rationalize the decision, and we often exaggerate for our benefit. Oftentimes it's not as clear cut as we'd like it to be, however -- example, I applaud McCain for his ability to shoot straight with blue collar workers in West Virginia ("I'm not one of you...") - he didn't pretend to be something he wasn't, and even though he's a bit awkward when he speaks, I think he was being genuine. I could look for some hole to poke in that, but the truth is it would be overly biased and not very helpful.
 
#59
#59
VolzRChamps said:
Talk Radio, Fox News and Blogs are as bad or worse than CNN, MSNBC and Air America.
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Fox News is to right wing nuts as Air America is to left wing nuts. They exist to feed one very narrow way of looking at the world and shut out any other viewpoints.

Any respectable news organization would not allow one of its pundits to a) use the incorrect name of a presidential candidate this far into a campaign, and b) joke about assassinating a public officer, and still keep her job. Whether it's incompetence or outright bias or some other excuse, a real news channel would've fired her immediately after this interview, regardless of her apology afterward.

YouTube - Fox News Jokes About Killing Obama

Imagine if Olbermann or Anderson Cooper made a similar comment about McCain. They'd be gone.
 
#60
#60
TennNC said:
I agree with all of the bold, but in terms of the overtones, only if you choose to see it that way. My previous post shows my interpretation.
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The racial overtones comment was not a condemnation - just stating that her comments were based on some observations about race - as you pointed out with your diverse crowd of support comment. I don't see a problem with making statements that have a racial component.


I see those as the exception, not the rule.

Once we make up our mind on who we're going to vote for, we look for evidence to rationalize the decision, and we often exaggerate for our benefit. Oftentimes it's not as clear cut as we'd like it to be, however -- example, I applaud McCain for his ability to shoot straight with blue collar workers in West Virginia ("I'm not one of you...") - he didn't pretend to be something he wasn't, and even though he's a bit awkward when he speaks, I think he was being genuine. I could look for some hole to poke in that, but the truth is it would be overly biased and not very helpful.
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I generally agree with this with the exception that I feel Obama's actions with regard to "new politics" and "unification" are not in sync with his claims. Nothing new in a seeing a politician not practicing what he preaches - McCain certainly is equally guilty.

There are plenty of reasons for many to support Obama but those that do on the belief that he is above old politics or somehow more of a unifier are buying into a myth IMHO.
 
#61
#61
TennNC said:
Fox News is to right wing nuts as Air America is to left wing nuts. They exist to feed one very narrow way of looking at the world and shut out any other viewpoints.
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I think Air America is more extreme than Fox News. There may be opinion commentators on Fox (Hannity for example) that are as nutso as Air America personalities but Fox also has mildly slanted news coverage just as MSNBC, CNN, NYT, etc. have.
 
#62
#62
TennNC said:
Fox News is to right wing nuts as Air America is to left wing nuts. They exist to feed one very narrow way of looking at the world and shut out any other viewpoints.

Any respectable news organization would not allow one of its pundits to a) use the incorrect name of a presidential candidate this far into a campaign, and b) joke about assassinating a public officer, and still keep her job. Whether it's incompetence or outright bias or some other excuse, a real news channel would've fired her immediately after this interview, regardless of her apology afterward.

YouTube - Fox News Jokes About Killing Obama

Imagine if Olbermann or Anderson Cooper made a similar comment about McCain. They'd be gone.
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How about a similar comment about Hillary (not quite the same but in the same vein)

Today Olbermann apologized in response to criticism of a crack he made the other night about Hillary.

The barb in question came in a discussion with a guest about the fact that the super-delegates were going to have to resolve the Dem primary. Olbermann said: "Right. Somebody who can take her into a room and only he comes out."
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There's plenty of partisanship crap spewing from all the news purveyors unfortunately.
 
#63
#63
volinbham said:
I think Air America is more extreme than Fox News. There may be opinion commentators on Fox (Hannity for example) that are as nutso as Air America personalities but Fox also has mildly slanted news coverage just as MSNBC, CNN, NYT, etc. have.
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I'll agree with Fox being nowhere near as bad as Air America, but how is Hannity nuts? You don't have to agree with him, but he's actually one of the more sane commentators out there.
 
#64
#64
TennNC said:
Fox News is to right wing nuts as Air America is to left wing nuts. They exist to feed one very narrow way of looking at the world and shut out any other viewpoints.

Any respectable news organization would not allow one of its pundits to a) use the incorrect name of a presidential candidate this far into a campaign, and b) joke about assassinating a public officer, and still keep her job. Whether it's incompetence or outright bias or some other excuse, a real news channel would've fired her immediately after this interview, regardless of her apology afterward.

YouTube - Fox News Jokes About Killing Obama

Imagine if Olbermann or Anderson Cooper made a similar comment about McCain. They'd be gone.
Click to expand...


You can go back and forth all day long with this... if a conservative commentator had told Clinton to "shut the hell up", guess what? There would be calls for his head.
 
#65
#65
volsforever27 said:
I'll agree with Fox being nowhere near as bad as Air America, but how is Hannity nuts? You don't have to agree with him, but he's actually one of the more sane commentators out there.
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I refer to Hannity as a nutso in the partisan sense. He is a bomb thrower. His arguments are sensationalized and hyperbolic much like the Air America crew.

A guy like William F. Buckley, Jr. was an unabashed conservative but relatively sane commentator.
 
#66
#66
volinbham said:
I refer to Hannity as a nutso in the partisan sense. He is a bomb thrower. His arguments are sensationalized and hyperbolic much like the Air America crew.

A guy like William F. Buckley, Jr. was an unabashed conservative but relatively sane commentator.
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Care to give an example?
 
#68
#68
volinbham said:
Not really - it is my opinion of Hannity's approach. I'm sure I could dig up examples but if you don't perceive him that way it is a waste of both of our time.
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I get you don't always agree with him, I'm just not sure where the bomb throwing comes in. You have to admit he's as hard on the R's as he is the Dems, but I don't find myself in agreement with anyone 100 percent of the time.
 
#69
#69
It's more than disagreement. In fact, sometimes I agree with his point but view his approach as questionable. I generally find his debating skills to be relatively weak. He harps on small points and beats them to death.

Overall, I would say I don't value him as a source of information or perspective on any issue.
 
#70
#70
volinbham said:
It's more than disagreement. In fact, sometimes I agree with his point but view his approach as questionable. I generally find his debating skills to be relatively weak. He harps on small points and beats them to death.

Overall, I would say I don't value him as a source of information or perspective on any issue.
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That's certainly your right... however myself and millions of others disagree. As far as harping on small points, he doesn't let anyone get away without answering the question... and if you don't like him for that reason (harping), then I'm guessing you don't like most commentators in general. I guess you really are moderate.
 
#71
#71
I'm moderate and I don't like Sean either.

Here is the Michelle Obama remark AND her explaining it. I still have no earthly ideal how any sane individual could find this comment racist, but I will say I agree with her. I AM proud of this country, because I thought we were no where near being able to vote for a black man. In some areas we still aren't. (See WV, KY, Parts of TN.) However, I am proud that in my early lifetime we can put racist views behind us and vote for a black man for President. (SOME of us, that is.)

YouTube - Michelle Obama Clarifies `Proud' Remark
 
#72
#72
volsforever27 said:
Care to give an example?
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You weren't asking me, but I will bite. He, like your good buddy Rush, know that Hillary will be 10 times easier to beat, so they both have sold thier souls to try to get her nominated. Both of them used to be entertaining to me. Both of them used to make sense from time to time. However, they now have proven themselves not to be "Great Americans", but to be "Great Right Wing Loyalists". Which is all fine and good unless you are pretending to be something else, which they (Hannity more than Rush) are.

Here are just a few examples of Sean's extremism.

YouTube - KO Countdown : Worst 08-03-19 : Hannity Obama Post (Watch from 1:25 till 2:16)

YouTube - Sean Hannity DOES Know Hal Turner This from a man that spends most nights bringing up Obama's "association" with Rev. Wright.

I could spend all day, posting things from him and others that turn my stomach, but those show some of the hypocrisy that both Hannity and others in the media have, not just toward Barack Obama, but anyone that doesn't push forward their world view.
 
#73
#73
VolzRChamps said:
I'm moderate and I don't like Sean either.

Here is the Michelle Obama remark AND her explaining it. I still have no earthly ideal how any sane individual could find this comment racist, but I will say I agree with her. I AM proud of this country, because I thought we were no where near being able to vote for a black man. In some areas we still aren't. (See WV, KY, Parts of TN.) However, I am proud that in my early lifetime we can put racist views behind us and vote for a black man for President. (SOME of us, that is.)

YouTube - Michelle Obama Clarifies `Proud' Remark
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That is the most ridiculous thing I've seen... I usually try to not get personal, but this is ridiculous. You're basically implying those states are racist... I don't even know where to begin with that. And of course she clarified her remarks, AFTER she was criticised so much about it.

Wow, just wow.
 
#74
#74
VolzRChamps said:
You weren't asking me, but I will bite. He, like your good buddy Rush, know that Hillary will be 10 times easier to beat, so they both have sold thier souls to try to get her nominated. Both of them used to be entertaining to me. Both of them used to make sense from time to time. However, they now have proven themselves not to be "Great Americans", but to be "Great Right Wing Loyalists". Which is all fine and good unless you are pretending to be something else, which they (Hannity more than Rush) are.

Here are just a few examples of Sean's extremism.

YouTube - KO Countdown : Worst 08-03-19 : Hannity Obama Post (Watch from 1:25 till 2:16)

YouTube - Sean Hannity DOES Know Hal Turner This from a man that spends most nights bringing up Obama's "association" with Rev. Wright.

I could spend all day, posting things from him and others that turn my stomach, but those show some of the hypocrisy that both Hannity and others in the media have, not just toward Barack Obama, but anyone that doesn't push forward their world view.
Click to expand...


I was honestly going to give you the benefit of the doubt and watch those clips, but as soon as I saw Keith Olbermann I decided not to. You talk about my "buddies" Hannity and Rush, and say your tired of extremism, but then you post that garbage. Olbermann hates Fox News and is a huge lib, but I'm sure you think he's objective (by the way, could the hatecome from Fox is beating MSNBC?).

That leads me to another point, you claim to not be for Obama and also claim to be a moderate, yet all you do is trash the R's and namely conservatives on here... I've yet to see you say anything critical about Hillary, Obama, or anybody else from the left. Wonder why that is?
 
#75
#75
TennNC said:
Sorry, but I don't see the logic in this. I could understand an argument that this comment shows she is unappreciative or lacks patriotism. But racist? That's ridiculous.

From the time I heard the comment, my first thought was that she was proud to see such a diverse crowd getting involved politically (side note: apparently Obama has such a large number of individual supporters that the FEC can't process the donations fast enough). She hadn't witnessed something like this in her lifetime. Was it poor phrasing? Probably. Was it politically risky? Yes - obviously, based on her reaction. Was it racist? My God, I hope not. If so, then I've probably said more racist things than I can imagine.
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then why don't you help me, first, understand the comment, second, whyshe made it at that time, and what else she could have meant by it.
 
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