Coach Kellie Harper fired

[Amb3096]

That would mean none of the coaches in the final four are being considered?

I thought we already knew that Dawn and Geno weren't coming, no one wanted Wes, and reality is about to hit Lisa Bluder hard in about a week.

 

[Volfan2012]

Definitely I would think lack of recruiting and lack of winning were factors in slow NIL flow.

What I can't understand is the theory that she always had the money, just refused to use it. I mean, why in the world? That seems like a really out there attempt to villianize KJH to me.

I think Rickea Jackson was acquired for two reasons Powell had already committed here and there was enough donated funds by the little people to BHC to get her here. I don't think BHC had the funds to grab three or four, but they could get one big player easily. What I'm looking to see and three or four of the best in the portal if we get a coach by Friday and we can line up the visits next week.

 

[Volfan2012]

That would mean none of the coaches in the final four are being considered?

No none of them would be considered as three are totally entrenched at their present schools and no one is paying more than they already make. Wes has said numerous times he is retiring at NC St so I'm holding him to that.

 

[spojo13]

That would mean none of the coaches in the final four are being considered?

Not surprising that those 4 are not being considered. I don’t think you would ever get Staley or Geno away from where they’re at. Moore seems happy at NC State and is VERY close with the Harper’s, so no surprise we wouldn’t go after him. Bluder is an average coach who has a transcendent player. Kudos to her for getting Clark though and having a system that fits around her.

 

[VolArmy74]

Again, none of us know if there were truly NIL issues at UT, one of the most storied programs ever and with one of the largest fan bases nationally and locally. Sure, we read posts from people that say UT was behind in NIL factors when recruiting was not going well. But nobody has ever been able to post any known facts on that subject and tbh, the success of the LV's in the portal was a huge indicator there was financial support coming in, you cannot sign and resign those types (JS/DW) without some financial resources in the NIL dept.. You can attack me here, it's fair game, but I believe the issue was not money, I think the previous staff could not close on HS athletes for various reasons. They did well in the portal where $ is needed to land those types, so support was there. That same support was likely there for HS recruits as well but the deal was hardly ever closed. That had to be a huge factor in AD White's decision process, a coach simply has to show the ability to bring in 4 year players from HS that are highly rated to compete at the top level.

If you wish to counter with the argument that LSU did well from the portal, remember they also have done well from the HS ranks under their current staff, with Williams and Johnson as key contributors to mention just a few. We will never know why CKH was not successful in the HS ranks, but from all apparent aspects, there was always enough money there from one of the top fan bases in WBB to buy what they needed in the portal. And contrary to what a few others have said that the money support was only there for apparent ready made talent like RJ and JS, I ask why it was not there for top flight HS talent also if indeed that premise was true, which I don't believe.

There were absolutely NIL issues because it was a source of concern for recruits and their parents. They felt that it was ignored here and not at other places they visited. When the people you're recruiting feel that way, it's an issue. It was something that KJH didn't embrace. I was told funds were there but she preferred old school recruiting and tried to sell the historical significance of the program while shying away from reality. I was also told that the recruits were realistic and not expecting a huge sum. But that they heard from other schools what was available but not from Tennessee. This was happening after the NIL restrictions about discussion were lifted.

So for parents to feel that way, there was at minimum, communication failures.

 

[Volfan2012]

If what is being said about NIL is true pay something like 1.5 million for a good coach and 5 million into the NIL collective. I'm like everybody else anxious to know who our new coach is cause not one person knows today unless it is DW and his people.

 

[VolFuture]

If what is being said about NIL is true pay something like 1.5 million for a good coach and 5 million into the NIL collective. I'm like everybody else anxious to know who our new coach is cause not one person knows today unless it is DW and his people.

Who’s up tracking private planes?

 

[brittannica]

Who’s up tracking private planes?

There has to be at least one swiftie on volnation!

 

[spojo13]

I do find it interesting that none of the players outside of TK’s retirement have made any movement yet. Almost immediately after Elzy was let go, there was a huge exodus from KY happening. It seems like at least for now that they are waiting to see who will be announced first. Maybe I’m totally out there, but it makes me wonder if Danny let them know a decision would be sooner than later. You’d think they’d want to get their name out there to be contacted if they thought it make take a while.

 

[Volfan2012]

Who’s up tracking private planes?

I couldn't find anybody and with all the traffic that goes and leaves Atlanta certainly would need someone really good at it. I haven't even seen anything about the UT plane where has it been lately? DW probably took a commercial flight to Atlanta to keep all the reporters away from his location.

 

[OrangeBeachVol]

I'm betting we know the coach by Friday. Time is of the essence here. Can't let the portal drain all the best existing players and best recruits commit elsewhere.
The new HC has to hit the ground running very fast.

 

[Dadof2Vols]

You know I thought a lot about that question and failed to get back to you. My apologies.
First a little clean up - if you don’t think I (and others) have been called a sunshine pumper or a snowflake etc., etc. then you are not paying attention. That little thing goes both ways.
I am a loyal person and all Vol and will support our team and coach whoever that is. There is one caveat to that and it has nothing to do with being a Vol. I will not support a coach that allows classless behavior. I expect our student athletes and coaches to be good representatives of our university.
I will be happy if they succeed with a non-Vol because that means our student athletes are experiencing that joy. Some of the folks on here who hated Kellie acted like the entire point of the team was to make them happy and a loss was a personal affront. Those folks need to grow up. The sun does not revolve around them.
I will also be happy for Kellie and all our LV coaches when they have successes. I would love to see Kellie take her new team to a ff and win a championship and would not blame her if at that point she told the UT administration to go kick rocks. She is far too classy to do that by the way.
Now, goalposts. The one absolute for me is missing the NCAA tournament. This is an every year line.
The whole recruiting/NIL thing is where I really spent some time thinking. What are the goalposts for a coach that does not have the NIL bucks to compete in the recruiting game? How do you measure NIL versus the benefit of a storied program? Are we still a storied program to a 17 year old? If Kellie had the NIL backing that apparently exists at LSU, SC, UConn then I would be expecting top ten recruiting classes supplemented with a good portal pickup yearly.
If, however the NIL money is not there that really changes the recruiting expectations. None other than Nick Saban said all that recruits are interested in is money and that was one reason he was retiring. If you can’t recruit kids on the basis of a prestigious athletic program like Bama football ( that hurts my very soul to type that) without NIL then a program with out that will struggle.
One of the big reasons I wanted Kellie to have at least one more year was to see what her recruiting looked like with better NIL support. The recent court decision gave me hope that additional $ were forthcoming and I think she was owed the opportunity to have a chance to recruit with that support.
On court performance, obviously recruiting is a huge part of this, some think the biggest. I thought Kellie was a good not great in game coach. I also thought she had improved those skill sets while at UT. All teams have injuries but in my obviously biased eyes we seemed to lose our key players at very critical times. Year before last Rae who was due a monster season, last year Jordy and TK, this year Rikea and TK during a very tough OOC schedule that was designed to get us a very high seed for tournament time.
I will always believe if Rickea had been healthy all year we would have won 4 to 6 more games been a 3 or 4 seed, played at home for the first two rounds of the tournament and made the EE at a minimum. If that happened we would not be having this conversation.
Despite a slow start I do think Kellie had the team playing really well at the end of the year. Much better ball movement, turnovers down, Spear really contributing on a more consistent basis, Puckett shining, JP getting folks in the right places, subs contributing, Rickea doing Rickea things. All that said, given the current dominance of SC and to a lesser extent LSU, which is somewhat like watching a drunk fly a kite on a cliff, I would still expect us, barring crazy injuries, to be in the top three of the SEC every year. Nationally we need to always be ranked top 15 and I think most years make the sweet sixteen or better. We do need to remember that Pat did not make the sweet sixteen every year and when she was coaching there were not as many strong programs or life changing money being thrown at 17 year olds.
Well that does it for me. I hope that although you may not agree with my answers you will at least believe I gave a thoughtful and considered answer. Having said all that, you have no right to ever question my loyalty to my alma mater and my fellow alums.

Lucy, Thank you for a well thought out and non-emotional response. This is the kind of discussion I come here for.

I actually agree with most all of what you said believe it or not.

My fear is we were in a continuous one more year phase with this staff. Last year people were saying just one more year I think I see the light up ahead. This year it is same thing, I am pretty sure we are moving in the right direction.

For me personally last year I was 65% that a change needed to be made but I also saw the injuries and what could have been. This year I got to more like 75-85%.

For me I do agree that lack of NIL was hurting CKJH but I don’t feel that is all of it. I had a kid playing a national travel sport and could have went to college to play and I am not sure I would advised them to play for CKJH if the sport was basketball and here are the reasons.

As someone who has watched basketball all of their life, I know it is sometimes about injuries and how the ball bounces so I do not look at just wins and loses. Here are a few of the reasons that I felt CKJH had a lot more growing to do then we were going to see in the next few years:

I did not see a consistent offensive set that could break down opposing defenses. I saw too much 1-1 with players standing around. This is not on players but coach.

I saw too many turnovers cost games for two many years now. This is on coach.

I saw too many breakdowns in defense.

I saw too many players playing out of control.

I do understand not using timeouts and saving them but if you save the timeouts until the game is out of reach what is the point of taking the timeouts home with you. You have to use them to stop runs and too many times this team fought to get back into a game and when the other team made their counterpunch CKJH waited until game was out of reach again to use that timeout.

I do not know if Jon was a help or a great coach or not but what I do know is that is one voice out of her coaching staff that could not get in her face in the heat of games like maybe an assistant would if they were not spouses. Maybe he did it but from the outside I didn’t really see the game plan change often enough.

The early season rotations for me just never made sense.

For me the 1.1 seconds was the straw that broke the camels back. I was sitting there yelling at the tv to cover Cardosa. You just cant leave anyone open. Period especially if you chose the not guard the inbounder and have 5 defenders on 4.

I said a few weeks ago that I thought the NIL funding wasn’t there because faith had been lost in CKJH by the big pockets and now we find out that maybe the case. If that is the case, she was unfortunately never going to get it and we were already in a death spiral.

In short, I do believe CKJH was growing but how much more time and would she ever get there? If I didn’t have her resume to go on then I would say there is a chance but with her resume it becomes less and less likely every year at this level that she gets to top of mountain.

I too want the best for the program but I believe that the longer it takes UT to get back to the top the harder it will be. You so eloquently pointed out how hard it will be for the Men’s FB to get back to the top and it is because of how far they had fallen and now how stout UGA is. I do not know if CJH will get the FB back there but the key with him was to stabilize the program and move it up from the dumps. He is doing that but may or may not be the guy to get the NC. Time will tell.

Thanks for your well thought out response. GBO

 

[Volfan2012]

I do find it interesting that none of the players outside of TK’s retirement have made any movement yet. Almost immediately after Elzy was let go, there was a huge exodus from KY happening. It seems like at least for now that they are waiting to see who will be announced first. Maybe I’m totally out there, but it makes me wonder if Danny let them know a decision would be sooner than later. You’d think they’d want to get their name out there to be contacted if they thought it make take a while.

I just hope Jewell holds to coming back as she made that announcement before Kellie was fired nothing since. I figure more will leave, but some will want to stay more than just a coach to like about Tennessee.

 

[brittannica]

I just hope Jewell holds to coming back as she made that announcement before Kellie was fired nothing since. I figure more will leave, but some will want to stay more than just a coach to like about Tennessee.

Does Jewel have her degree? She wants to go into broadcasting and is running a podcast through the journalism school, so she may be invested beyond basketball. Not that other schools wouldn’t make an offer, but…

 

[Dadof2Vols]

I couldn't find anybody and with all the traffic that goes and leaves Atlanta certainly would need someone really good at it. I haven't even seen anything about the UT plane where has it been lately? DW probably took a commercial flight to Atlanta to keep all the reporters away from his location.

Can we get the UCF kid that tracks Elon’s plane to track DW and DP’s plane?

 

[Volfan2012]

Does Jewel have her degree? She wants to go into broadcasting and is running a podcast through the journalism school, so she may be invested beyond basketball. Not that other schools wouldn’t make an offer, but…

I say yes cause she took part in Senior night. With just one year to play why would she leaves plus I figure she is doing OK with the NIL money already.

 

[DarkPhoenix]

Does Jewel have her degree? She wants to go into broadcasting and is running a podcast through the journalism school, so she may be invested beyond basketball. Not that other schools wouldn’t make an offer, but…

She wants to play in the WNBA, she came here to get ready.

 

[spojo13]

I just hope Jewell holds to coming back as she made that announcement before Kellie was fired nothing since. I figure more will leave, but some will want to stay more than just a coach to like about Tennessee.

Yeah, I would really love for her to stay.

I figure we might lose a few, but there are some who just like the school. Their friends are here, they like the city, they like the people. There also might be others that think well maybe in this new system I’ll be used a little bit differently. Some might also think that they just have one more year, and it’s not worth uprooting and moving.

 

[Volfan2012]

Here you go

 

[Volfan2012]

Yeah, I would really love for her to stay.

I figure we might lose a few, but there are some who just like the school. Their friends are here, they like the city, they like the people. There also might be others that think well maybe in this new system I’ll be used a little bit differently. Some might also think that they just have one more year, and it’s not worth uprooting and moving.

JMO we need to lose a few cause we need to go big and bold in the portal.

 

[spojo13]

Here you go

Ohhh that Danny White is good at this, isn’t he? Smart but no fun at all

 

[spojo13]

JMO we need to lose a few cause we need to go big and bold in the portal.

On that I think we can agree. I wouldn’t force anyone out because they have all worked hard for the program and team, but I might illustrate how they might be able to prosper somewhere else if they wanted.

 

[Cb153181]

Here you go

The tweet is from 2021

 

[ttharp]

Here you go

The tweet was made in 2021.

 

[Lucy]

Again, none of us know if there were truly NIL issues at UT, one of the most storied programs ever and with one of the largest fan bases nationally and locally. Sure, we read posts from people that say UT was behind in NIL factors when recruiting was not going well. But nobody has ever been able to post any known facts on that subject and tbh, the success of the LV's in the portal was a huge indicator there was financial support coming in, you cannot sign and resign those types (JS/DW) without some financial resources in the NIL dept.. You can attack me here, it's fair game, but I believe the issue was not money, I think the previous staff could not close on HS athletes for various reasons. They did well in the portal where $ is needed to land those types, so support was there. That same support was likely there for HS recruits as well but the deal was hardly ever closed. That had to be a huge factor in AD White's decision process, a coach simply has to show the ability to bring in 4 year players from HS that are highly rated to compete at the top level.

If you wish to counter with the argument that LSU did well from the portal, remember they also have done well from the HS ranks under their current staff, with Williams and Johnson as key contributors to mention just a few. We will never know why CKH was not successful in the HS ranks, but from all apparent aspects, there was always enough money there from one of the top fan bases in WBB to buy what they needed in the portal. And contrary to what a few others have said that the money support was only there for apparent ready made talent like RJ and JS, I ask why it was not there for top flight HS talent also if indeed that premise was true, which I don't believe.

I think you are incorrect here. Yes, with one or two outstanding players someone coughed up some money and a car lease. That is in no way equal to the money being passed out at at other leading programs. We got the kids on campus and couldn’t quite close the deal. Honestly, after several years of watching Kellie Harper interact with the media, fans and especially the players who are devoted to her, do you think recruits would be turned off by an on campus recruiting visit with Kellie?
None of us know how much and who to for sure but your assumption that UT was giving out tons of NIL and that Kellie Harper was such a horrible person to meet with kids did not come here seems far fetched.