Coach Kellie Harper fired

[FormerLadyVolFan]

My friend, yes I can confirm that we were outbid for several top recruits, including Juju Watkins. The coaches had nothing to with the offers/promises that were made by the NIL, which they were, by rule, not involved with.

...and they embraced NIL as much as they were allowed. I attended a $2500 a couple NIL fundraiser at Coach Harpers house and another that she hosted at a local restaurant, all arranged by the collective, who collected the funds.

We have two explanations floating on the board.
1. the deep pocket donors were being stingy because they had doubts about Kellie.
2. Kellie had plenty of NIL $ at her disposal but for some inexplicable refused to use it.

Well known as in internet fan forums or well known as in you know some facts? I'm open to facts, can someone show us this is true with any evidence?

 

[Rooster1]

We have two explanations floating on the board.
1. the deep pocket donors were being stingy because they had doubts about Kellie.
2. Kellie had plenty of NIL $ at her disposal but for some inexplicable refused to use it.

Only one of those scenarios is remotely plausible but many posters are gleefully going with the option that implies Kellie was an idiot (or had a death wish).

I am more intrigued by the claim that Kellie put too much emphasis on Pat and the LV tradition when wooing recruits. I can see the inverse that Kellie maybe did not want players who were not wanting to be part of the tradition as a kind of culture building move. Her players all seem vested in the history (which is great) but that may have put Kellie a bit out of step with the current times (and you factor in a substandard NIL situation and her struggles with HS recruits starts to make more sense). Perhaps Kellie did better with transfers because players who are a bit more mature and immersed in the world of WCBB, gained more respect for the LV/Summitt legacy.

There are other possibilities, I’ll float one:

Based upon Portal funds it likely took to land and keep players of RJ and JS’s pedigree, there were NIL funds available, no question. Now as for HS recruits, how that money was utilized is up for question if it was there. You would need to convince me UT with their huge LV fan base (one of the largest in the nation) could not compete with schools like Vandy, UF, Rutgers, Duke, etc who have been doing better at HS recruiting lately. Did those type schools with much smaller WBB fan bases outbid UT or was the recruiting process slanted to some coaches that were just better recruiters? You tell me. But until I see proof otherwise, the huge LV fan base seems like it has advantages over many/most schools in the nation if we are just talking resources/$. It was always a major question for everyone, but I would love to know the $ numbers everyone keeps talking about to know for sure, I suspect UT was always competitive money wise with HS players just like they were in the portal, I hope we find out some day.

 

[Voltopia]

There are other possibilities, I’ll float one:

Based upon Portal funds it likely took to land and keep players of RJ and JS’s pedigree, there were NIL funds available, no question. Now as for HS recruits, how that money was utilized is up for question if it was there. You would need to convince me UT with their huge LV fan base (one of the largest in the nation) could not compete with schools like Vandy, UF, Rutgers, Duke, etc who have been doing better at HS recruiting lately. Did those type schools with much smaller WBB fan bases outbid UT or was the recruiting process slanted to some coaches that were just better recruiters? You tell me. But until I see proof otherwise, the huge LV fan base seems like it has advantages over many/most schools in the nation if we are just talking resources/$. It was always a major question for everyone, but I would love to know the $ numbers everyone keeps talking about to know for sure, I suspect UT was always competitive money wise with HS players just like they were in the portal, I hope we find out some day.

Are those other schools - Vandy, UF, Duke, Rutgers, etc. - running separate NIL collectives for their men's and women's programs, and are the largest collectives at those schools also focused on men's football and basketball and disinterested in supporting NIL or NIL operations for women's athletics? The divide in NIL collectives at Tennessee has been discussed to death here.

 

[ttharp]

I will be stunned (and slightly disappointed) if it is Lawson. I get she has a lot going for her but doesn’t seem to be in a better place than Kellie…

Lawson
Gotlieb
Moore
Moren
Berube*** I don’t get this one

Then “the field”

Rueck Fortier Payne

I’ll also be disappointed if Danny hires Kara. For two seasons her offense has been AWFUL! If it’s awful for more than one season, that lets me know coaching offense isn’t her strength.

You don’t have to have offensive-minded players to have an offense that looks better than Duke’s offense. I hope we don’t have to learn this the hard way…. again.

She’s not even in a conference that’s known for great defense.

 

[Rooster1]

My friend, yes I can confirm that we were outbid for several top recruits, including Juju Watkins. The coaches had nothing to with the offers/promises that were made by the NIL, which they were, by rule, not involved with.

...and they embraced NIL as much as they were allowed. I attended a $2500 a couple NIL fundraiser at Coach Harpers house and another that she hosted at a local restaurant, all arranged by the collective, who collected the funds.

Hey Earl, how are you doing? By the sounds of it there was a concerted booster effort at some expense to donors to raise funds for the LV program, and I know you are a big contributor. Good to see you posting, hope to see you again next season at the tourney, I am sure most knowledgeable LV fans appreciate fans like you that support their team in many ways but most importantly, financially these days. Next time let’s take the wives out to dinner.

 

[FormerLadyVolFan]

The size of the fan base doesn't matter if you have a few major NIL donors. The Tennessee separate women's collective did not have the funds for the top recruits. I was personally involved in the effort to get Rickea back last year and the deal she got wasn't as big as she could have got elsewhere, but she loved being a Lady Vol, her teammates and her coaches. She refined and improved her game in her last year and has improved her draft stock.

There are other possibilities, I’ll float one:

Based upon Portal funds it likely took to land and keep players of RJ and JS’s pedigree, there were NIL funds available, no question. Now as for HS recruits, how that money was utilized is up for question if it was there. You would need to convince me UT with their huge LV fan base (one of the largest in the nation) could not compete with schools like Vandy, UF, Rutgers, Duke, etc who have been doing better at HS recruiting lately. Did those type schools with much smaller WBB fan bases outbid UT or was the recruiting process slanted to some coaches that were just better recruiters? You tell me. But until I see proof otherwise, the huge LV fan base seems like it has advantages over many/most schools in the nation if we are just talking resources/$. It was always a major question for everyone, but I would love to know the $ numbers everyone keeps talking about to know for sure, I suspect UT was always competitive money wise with HS players just like they were in the portal, I hope we find out some day.

 

[Rooster1]

The size of the fan base doesn't matter if you have a few major NIL donors. The Tennessee separate women's collective did not have the funds for the top recruits. I was personally involved in the effort to get Rickea back last year and the deal she got wasn't as big as she could have got elsewhere, but she loved being a Lady Vol, her teammates and her coaches. She refined and improved her game in her last year and has improved her draft stock.

And Earl, JuJu was never coming off the West Coast unless I am wrong. I am aware of a huge push to get her to the South Atlantic region but it never got any traction.

 

[madtownvol]

I’ll also be disappointed if Danny hires Kara. For two seasons her offense has been AWFUL! If it’s awful for more than one season, that lets me know coaching offense isn’t her strength.

You don’t have to have offensive-minded players to have an offense that looks better than Duke’s offense. I hope we don’t have to learn this the hard way…. again.

She’s not even in a conference that’s known for great defense.

Zero chance its Kara. The optics would be AWFUL. Hey, we just replaced one beloved one LV with another whose overall head coaching record is not as good.

I would bet the house that new coach will not be an ex-LV

 

[ttharp]

Zero chance its Kara. The optics would be AWFUL. Hey, we just replaced one beloved one LV with another whose overall head coaching record is not as good.

I would bet the house that new coach will not be an ex-LV

I hope it isn’t.

AND to be fair to Kara, the reason her overall record isn’t as good as Kellie’s is because she’s only in year 4 as a HC at a P5. Kellie’s in year 20 and had stops at mid-majors.

 

[Majors]

My friend, yes I can confirm that we were outbid for several top recruits, including Juju Watkins. The coaches had nothing to with the offers/promises that were made by the NIL, which they were, by rule, not involved with.

...and they embraced NIL as much as they were allowed. I attended a $2500 a couple NIL fundraiser at Coach Harpers house and another that she hosted at a local restaurant, all arranged by the collective, who collected the funds.

Humble brag flex

 

[Amb3096]

Totally understand it is a double standard. It is. I just can’t stomach how close that looks to the most prevalent domestic abuse.
I almost feel a male coach worth his salt would be aware of that too. Many of these kids don’t have dads to show them how a good guy interacts with women. Maybe that could be a great thing a male coach could show his players.

Somewhat of a slippery slope. As evidenced by male coaches like Geno, Jeff or Vic, they have had years of success and a whole legion of former players that responded well to their tough coaching. I wonder if then you get players who think the coach is being sexist because they are patronizing/infantalizing them instead of treating them the same way they would treat a male player?

 

[madtownvol]

I hope it isn’t.

AND to be fair to Kara, the reason her overall record isn’t as good as Kellie’s is because she’s only in year 4 as a HC at a P5. Kellie’s in year 20 and had stops at mid-majors.

Through Kellies' first 4 years, she had two S16s to Kara's 1.

 

[Lucy]

Somewhat of a slippery slope. As evidenced by male coaches like Geno, Jeff or Vic, they have had years of success and a whole legion of former players that responded well to their tough coaching. I wonder if then you get players who think the coach is being sexist because they are patronizing/infantalizing them instead of treating them the same way they would treat a male player?

Maybe there is a way to be a tough coach without the physical intimidation thing? It’s not like that is a situation you would find yourself in as an adult. If you are a woman and your boyfriend or spouse gets in your face like that, tries to physically intimidate you there is a problem. We don’t want young women thinking that is okay.
Again I know it is a double standard. It just really bothers me. I had a niece who was married to a young man that never hit her but did things like punching walls etc. to intimidate and control her. That marriage lasted about a minute and a half after her father found out about it (as I am sure the girl dads on here would understand.) FYI she’s happily married to a great guy now and they have a wonderful boy. All good now!
Sorry for the rabbit hole!

 

[CoryDallasLV]

And Earl, JuJu was never coming off the West Coast unless I am wrong. I am aware of a huge push to get her to the South Atlantic region but it never got any traction.

JuJu Watkins was never going anywhere but USC and would not have sniffed at Tennessee no matter the $$$. She had well established deals her junior year of high school and was not leaving LA.

 

[Rooster1]

Humble brag flex

Sometimes you can be off base Major, this is one of those times. No need to dig at anyone who is a loyal supporter in every way. Earl steps up huge for the LV’s, if that bothers you just don’t say anything.

 

[ttharp]

Through Kellies' first 4 years, she had two S16s to Kara's 1.

Still not a fair comparison. Comparing their resumes at the P5 level is a more accurate assessment, imo. I would also compare Kellie’s 4 years at NC State to Kara’s 4 at Duke.

Kellie had HC experience before taking her first P5 job. Kara did not. In nine years at the P5 level, Kellie made two S16s. Kara, in y-four, has one, and is on pace to pass that if she continues to recruit well. As a 7 seed, Kara also beat a P5 team to get there. Kellie never beat a P5 team to make it to the S16 at TN.

 

[Majors]

Sometimes you can be off base Major, this is one of those times. No need to dig at anyone who is a loyal supporter.

No need to drop $2500 etc. Just say event and be a fan, not a bragger. Same person stated to another poster he was connected and called then cussed at them. I’m good calling it as it is.

 

[Rooster1]

Still not a fair comparison. Comparing their resumes at the P5 level is a more accurate assessment, imo. I would also compare Kellie’s 4 years at NC State to Kara’s 4 at Duke.

Kellie had HC experience before taking her first P5 job. Kara did not. In nine years at the P5 level, Kellie made two S16s. Kara, in y-four, has one, and is on pace to pass that if she continues to recruit well. As a 7 seed, Kara also beat a P5 team to get there. Kellie never beat a P5 team to make it to the S16 at TN.

Kara gets a bunch of flack here from some. But if you look at her career, and compare it equally, from the start, like the above poster has done she looks like a riser. And her recruiting is stellar so far, I would not be surprised if in a few years she is one of the bigs in WBB coaching circles, she seems to have everything needed imo.

 

[madtownvol]

There are other possibilities, I’ll float one:

Based upon Portal funds it likely took to land and keep players of RJ and JS’s pedigree, there were NIL funds available, no question. Now as for HS recruits, how that money was utilized is up for question if it was there. You would need to convince me UT with their huge LV fan base (one of the largest in the nation) could not compete with schools like Vandy, UF, Rutgers, Duke, etc who have been doing better at HS recruiting lately. Did those type schools with much smaller WBB fan bases outbid UT or was the recruiting process slanted to some coaches that were just better recruiters? You tell me. But until I see proof otherwise, the huge LV fan base seems like it has advantages over many/most schools in the nation if we are just talking resources/$. It was always a major question for everyone, but I would love to know the $ numbers everyone keeps talking about to know for sure, I suspect UT was always competitive money wise with HS players just like they were in the portal, I hope we find out some day.

Rooster, I am not sure why you think the size of the fan base corresponds to NIL $. A very small % fans make donations to the programs they follow (just like very few buy season tickets). As Earlvol notes, it is the deep pocket fans that are really at issue. NIL is not a GoFundMe enterprise.

 

[Rooster1]

No need to drop $2500 etc. Just say event and be a fan, not a bragger. Same person stated to another poster he was connected and called then cussed at them. I’m good calling it as it is.

If you are a true LV fan you might do well to appreciate fans like Earl that step up for the program, I never understood your desire to attack folks like him that are the backbone of the LV support system. But you keep doing you.

 

[VolBall09]

Kara gets a bunch of flack here from some. But if you look at her career, and compare it equally, from the start, like the above poster has done she looks like a riser. And her recruiting is stellar so far, I would not be surprised if in a few years she is one of the bigs in WBB coaching circles, she seems to have everything needed imo.

Honestly where I am with the program I don’t care if she’s the second coming of Pat herself. I do NOT want another LVFL. Especially one with minimal experience.

She probably will be a great coach, Tennessee doesn’t need to experiment and find out.

Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me. Three times???? No more Lady Vols.

 

[ttharp]

Kara gets a bunch of flack here from some. But if you look at her career, and compare it equally, from the start, like the above poster has done she looks like a riser. And her recruiting is stellar so far, I would not be surprised if in a few years she is one of the bigs in WBB coaching circles, she seems to have everything needed imo.

If she hires an offensive guru, she will get there and stay there.

 

[Rooster1]

Honestly where I am with the program I don’t care if she’s the second coming of Pat herself. I do NOT want another LVFL. Especially one with minimal experience.

She probably will be a great coach, Tennessee doesn’t need to experiment and find out.

Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me. Three times???? No more Lady Vols.

I understand your feelings, but to me, at this stage, Lawson is pretty far removed from an experiment. It doesn’t take a lot of mental exercise to see her trajectory. Just my opinion, and I understand the want for someone not connected this time.

 

[VolBall09]

If you are a true LV fan you might do well to appreciate fans like Earl that step up for the program, I never understood your desire to attack folks like him that are the backbone of the LV support system. But you keep doing you.

Many of us support the program, we don’t all post about every 5 seconds because we need the pat on the back.

Year 2, 3 and 4 I gave $1,000 to LV Boost Her club. I know that may not be much to some, but it’s sizable for my cheap a**. Also purchased individual merch from almost every player.

I made no donation this year because after the FSU game I was fully in “wait and see” and “I’m over it” mode. I had a ton of hope for Kellie and really thought we were going the right direction. Year 5 you expect a lot though and it was obvious in just the first couple games we weren’t any better.

 

[madtownvol]

Kara gets a bunch of flack here from some. But if you look at her career, and compare it equally, from the start, like the above poster has done she looks like a riser. And her recruiting is stellar so far, I would not be surprised if in a few years she is one of the bigs in WBB coaching circles, she seems to have everything needed imo.

I am not anti-Kara and I agree that she seems to have a bigger upside than Kellie. But, the prevailing idea is that Danny is going to make a game changing hire whereas Kara looks more or less like a lateral move with a bet on future potential. But I don't give credibility to these reports that she is a serious candidate (which implies mutual interest). I think she really likes being at a prestige school (which is where her Dad wanted her to go) and she is gaining momentum at Duke.