Congress Criminal Referral Clinton, Comey, McCabe, Lynch, Strzok, and Page to DOJ

[SpaceCoastVol]

There is something here for everyone. Ergo, no one's mind will be changed at all.

Exactly. So bring charges and stop wasting everyone's time.

 

[BigOrangeD]

 

[NurseGoodVol]

I haven’t seen a list of everything Wray has suggested, but a lot of my grievances are in the statute and would need congressional action to change.

Like @0nelilreb said, if the FBI is the only one making changes then we’re just relying on the fox to guard the hen house. Like most law enforcement, I think the FBI generally has good intentions but I don’t like relying on them to determine how much the ends justify their own means.

That’s why we need a functioning congress and why we need a president who doesn’t say this was a deep state coup to overthrow the government (of which he was not a part when the actions took place).

After seeing the failures i would rather legislation be the answer. I'll be glad when this entire circus is over.

 

[Mick]

My beef is with the procedural requirements in the statute.

Section 702 was grafted on under the bush admin and it was intended to allow surveillance of non US Citizens overseas. So no criminal suspicion required to get this warrant. Very low standard.

The scope of these warrants is so broad that American digital communications are routinely collected and catalogued.

Article I is similarly broad but applies to surveillance of foreign powers or agents of foreign powers. Again, both of those terms are very broadly defined.

As far as I know all the warrants hop to some degree and all of the warrants are necessarily handled ex parte.

Using Page as an example: this report seems to contain examples of the type of self-righteous justification of impropriety that often goes on among law enforcement community members all the time. And there’s really no remedy. You see that they lied or violated procedures a number of times and this does not invalidate the warrant.

Any of these features individually may not be a big deal most of them make sense, but in combination I think they are extremely problematic.

Seriously though, sec 702 I absolutely don't have a problem with if a clear national security risk is articulated.
I don't like the limitations placed on metadata hops because, by doing so you have handcuffed any investigation. The scope needs to be open ended in any intelligence gathering operation. I say this because time is of essence to protect this country and I'm fully aware of how complex conspiracies are and the number of contacts and intermediaries required to pull one off.

 

[hog88]

Seriously though, sec 702 I absolutely don't have a problem with if a clear national security risk is articulated.
I don't like the limitations placed on metadata hops because, by doing so you have handcuffed any investigation. The scope needs to be open ended in any intelligence gathering operation. I say this because time is of essence to protect this country and I'm fully aware of how complex conspiracies are and the number of contacts and intermediaries required to pull one off.

Well Mick you have never been an advocate of privacy and individual freedom from .gov abuses.

 

[RockyTop85]

Seriously though, sec 702 I absolutely don't have a problem with if a clear national security risk is articulated.
I don't like the limitations placed on metadata hops because, by doing so you have handcuffed any investigation. The scope needs to be open ended in any intelligence gathering operation. I say this because time is of essence to protect this country and I'm fully aware of how complex conspiracies are and the number of contacts and intermediaries required to pull one off.

Is it still just my opinion when we had a 400+ page report detailing the multiple ways this exact process was abused by self-righteous law enforcement, in just this one instance?

 

[Mick]

Well Mick you have never been an advocate of privacy and individual freedom from .gov abuses.

You sign away your right to privacy by getting on the internet. Russia and China don't care about our laws. Fear I'm going to get caught up in FISA "abuse" is non existent.

 

[evillawyer]

Solid

 

[ajvol01]

You sign away your right to privacy by getting on the internet. Russia and China don't care about our laws. Fear I'm going to get caught up in FISA "abuse" is non existent.

That’s because you’re more afraid of the terrorists than your own government.

Ridiculous. Americans’ right to privacy shouldn’t be forfeited to allow big brother to spy whenever and wherever they want.

 

[lawgator1]

Exactly. So bring charges and stop wasting everyone's time.

Agree. Senate will never convict, and they wouldn't even if he shot someone on Fifth Avenue. So put the truth about what he did out there, let the Senate give him another pass. Then beat him into the ground with massive turnout in 2020.

 

[Mick]

Is it still just my opinion when we had a 400+ page report detailing the multiple ways this exact process was abused by self-righteous law enforcement, in just this one instance?

I'm not saying there isn't room for improvement, there always will be, but there wasn't any FISA abuse. And yes you gave your opinion, something I respected and you chose not to be reciprocal when I expressed mine. It wasn't an argument against the fact there were multiple instances of process errors.

 

[Mick]

That’s because you’re more afraid of the terrorists than your own government.

Ridiculous. Americans’ right to privacy shouldn’t be forfeited to allow big brother to spy whenever and wherever they want.

You should be really pissed about Trump asking Ukraine to investigate the Biden's. Since you Hog and the rest of the Q redhats seem unconcerned, your fake "Americans' right to privacy" diatribe rings hollow.

 

[Fun coupon VOL]

I'm not saying there isn't room for improvement, there always will be, but there wasn't any FISA abuse. And yes you gave your opinion, something I respected and you chose not to be reciprocal when I expressed mine. It wasn't an argument against the fact there were multiple instances of process errors.

The way in which they obtain the FISA warrant fell below most standards. This is stated in the IG report with multiple individuals dropping the ball at different points. The fbi technically had a right to spy, but relied upon faulty or information that was not verified. This is not debatable.

 

[SpaceCoastVol]

Agree. Senate will never convict, and they wouldn't even if he shot someone on Fifth Avenue. So put the truth about what he did out there, let the Senate give him another pass. Then beat him into the ground with massive turnout in 2020.

lol

Which of your old white men will win?

Edit: Which of your old white men will offer something better than the economy we now enjoy? How will they employ MORE black Americans than at any other time in history? How will pay for their 'free everything' platform?

I know the answer. It doesn't matter because... Trump....

 

[ajvol01]

You should be really pissed about Trump asking Ukraine to investigate the Biden's. Since you Hog and the rest of the Q redhats seem unconcerned, your fake "Americans' right to privacy" diatribe rings hollow.

Listen to this testimony

 

[Mick]

The way in which they obtain the FISA warrant fell below most standards. This is stated in the IG report with multiple individuals dropping the ball at different points. The fbi technically had a right to spy, but relied upon faulty or information that was not verified. This is not debatable.

Thats complete BS.

"The application received the necessary Department approvals and certifications as required by law. As we fully descri be in Chapter Five, this application received more attention and scrutiny than a typical FISA application in terms of the additional layers of review"

 

[Mick]

Listen to this testimony

Hearsay.

 

[ajvol01]

Hearsay.

He is the Democrats own witness.

 

[lawgator1]

lol

Which of your old white men will win?

Edit: Which of your old white men will offer something better than the economy we now enjoy? How will they employ MORE black Americans than at any other time in history? How will pay for their 'free everything' platform?

I know the answer. It doesn't matter because... Trump....

I think Biden wins the nomination and in the debates what I thought might be a weakness -- his subdued manner - might turn out to be what wins it for him next to the shrieking faux pas machine that is Donald Trump.

 

[SpaceCoastVol]

I think Biden wins the nomination and in the debates what I thought might be a weakness -- his subdued manner - might turn out to be what wins it for him next to the shrieking faux pas machine that is Donald Trump.

Trump will run on his record. Biden will run on his..... what again?

Oh yeah... that he isn't Trump.


bwaaaa haaaaa haaaaa

 

[BigOrangeD]

I think Biden wins the nomination and in the debates what I thought might be a weakness -- his subdued manner - might turn out to be what wins it for him next to the shrieking faux pas machine that is Donald Trump.

Not when the Black Vote is turning more towards Trump. Trump will win.

 

[RockyTop85]

I'm not saying there isn't room for improvement, there always will be, but there wasn't any FISA abuse. And yes you gave your opinion, something I respected and you chose not to be reciprocal when I expressed mine. It wasn't an argument against the fact there were multiple instances of process errors.

How am I not giving equal respect to your opinion? Should I have posted some glib meme, instead? The best one was already taken.

I don’t agree that there was no abuse of FISA in this case. The abuses didn’t negate the basis for the warrant or the investigation (and I’ve said for over a year that the QAnonsense wouldn’t be a silver bullet that killed this investigation and that anybody trying to spin that as a possible result wasn’t credible). But when there are numerous omissions and misstatements in the application, that’s still an abuse of the process, IMO.

 

[volfanjustin]

I think Biden wins the nomination and in the debates what I thought might be a weakness -- his subdued manner - might turn out to be what wins it for him next to the shrieking faux pas machine that is Donald Trump.

He doesn't know what state he's in half the time, he likes kids rubbing his leg hair and sitting in his lap. Let's see how that plays out with straight, normal Americans.

 

[NurseGoodVol]

Thats complete BS.

"The application received the necessary Department approvals and certifications as required by law. As we fully descri be in Chapter Five, this application received more attention and scrutiny than a typical FISA application in terms of the additional layers of review"

I.E. Multiple judgement failures and failures to verify and submit information. Okey doke mick. You are dense.

 

[SpaceCoastVol]

Biden: 50 years in office and.... what exactly?

Trump: 3 years and the lowest level of black unemployment in history.