Constitutionality of Shutdowns

#51
#51
n_huffhines said:
The go-to libertarian legal advocacy group for me is the Institute for Justice. Actually, one of my college friends is an attorney there. One of my proudest moments in life was when he took that job. His first libertarian discussion was with me about selling organs and he thought I was nuts. Now, look at him.
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Is he selling organs?
 
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#52
#52
I assume the constitutionality of shutdowns would be based solely on the state constitutions, correct?

I mean, we have the 9th amendment but it’s pretty vague and I’m not sure if it’s ever successfully been used as a defense.
 
#53
#53
Vol8188 said:
I assume the constitutionality of shutdowns would be based solely on the state constitutions, correct?

I mean, we have the 9th amendment but it’s pretty vague and I’m not sure if it’s ever successfully been used as a defense.
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Well, it depends on your view of the 14th amendment. If you think it's constitutional, then the bill of rights applies to the states and the federal govt. is supposed to protect our freedom to assemble
 
#54
#54
n_huffhines said:
Well, it depends on your view of the 14th amendment. If you think it's constitutional, then the bill of rights applies to the states and the federal govt. is supposed to protect our freedom to assemble
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I didn’t consider the freedom of assembly to be oppressed. I know states asked people not to gather in groups over x amount, but was it outright banned in some areas?
 
#55
#55
Vol8188 said:
I assume the constitutionality of shutdowns would be based solely on the state constitutions, correct?

I mean, we have the 9th amendment but it’s pretty vague and I’m not sure if it’s ever successfully been used as a defense.
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Reasonable assumption. But we typically only see shutdowns locally. So state Constitution has precedent. Doesn't necessarily mean the federal constitution has no authority though.
 
#56
#56
Vol8188 said:
I didn’t consider the freedom of assembly to be oppressed. I know states asked people not to gather in groups over x amount, but was it outright banned in some areas?
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Well, in the case in OP of this thread, the AZ governor has shut down an entire industry (fitness gyms).
 
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#57
#57
McDad said:
Reasonable assumption. But we typically only see shutdowns locally. So state Constitution has precedent. Doesn't necessarily mean the federal constitution has no authority though.
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I don’t disagree. I’m simply having a hard time seeing what element of the federal constitution has been violated. Given the wide range of local and state laws, it’s likely there’s one I missed. But I also know many state constitutions are more stringent than the federal, making it more likely they were violated.
 
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#58
#58
McDad said:
Reasonable assumption. But we typically only see shutdowns locally. So state Constitution has precedent. Doesn't necessarily mean the federal constitution has no authority though.
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I've always (might be wrong) the constitution, primarily the BORs superseded state constitutions.
 
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#59
#59
n_huffhines said:
Well, in the case in OP of this thread, the AZ governor has shut down an entire industry (fitness gyms).
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It would help if I would read OPs, or so I’ve been told. But the argument is that you’re banning the gym members from assembling? Interesting angle. I hadn’t considered that.
 
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#60
#60
hog88 said:
I've always (might be wrong) the constitution, primarily the BORs superseded state constitutions.
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Not in a practical sense. Certain cities ban guns, right? ..or is that only for concealed carry???
 
#61
#61
McDad said:
Not in a practical sense. Certain cities ban guns, right? ..or is that only for concealed carry???
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I think the Heller decision ended any cities ban on guns, they can outlaw carrying them around but who knows. GV knows Heller inside and out, he could explain.
 
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#63
#63
I don't agree with the precedent we've adopted where government can force us into action to protect us. I believe the Gs role should be to apprise us of the risks and let us make a decision. We've abdicated our own autonomy over the years and now it is SOP.
 
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#65
#65
McDad said:
I don't agree with the precedent we've adopted where government can force us into action to protect us. I believe the Gs role should be to apprise us of the risks and let us make a decision. We've abdicated our own autonomy over the years and now it is SOP.
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Agreed. These shutdowns and mandates will become more frequent going forward now that they have been allowed to get away with it.

I can see a bad flu season causing a shutdown, a potential natural disaster ext ext.
 
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#69
#69
hog88 said:
Agreed. These shutdowns and mandates will become more frequent going forward now that they have been allowed to get away with it.

I can see a bad flu season causing a shutdown, a potential natural disaster ext ext.
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Last flu season death rate was .16%. Covid is .26%. I agree. This is a horrific precedent.
 
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#73
#73
hog88 said:
Agreed. These shutdowns and mandates will become more frequent going forward now that they have been allowed to get away with it.

I can see a bad flu season causing a shutdown, a potential natural disaster ext ext.
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It would actually be surprising if they didn't.

•UV index too high; stay indoors.
•CO2 levels rising; only essential car use.
•Riots possible; leave house and shelter in approved area.
 
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