Crime and the United States

[LouderVol]

I guess for me not boils down to this....if the penalty for stealing from an individual is losing a hand vs stealing from a business is just 2 years in jail which do you think will happen more??

the overall crime rate would be the same.

someone who is hungry, has hungry kids, etc, is going to rob somebody. no matter if they are risking death or not. Its why in the middle ages when poaching the kings deer was a death sentence it still happened.

right now their options are: No crime, and probably die. or crime, and maybe go to jail. even if death was on the table for these small crimes that is a risk they are already facing.

like someone said, its the economy stupid.

you give them an economy where they can find work, and afford to live where they are, and you have removed most of the incentive to commit crime, and you have also made the same punishment (jail) a far worse thing than it was before, relatively speaking.

for many life in jail is better than life outside of jail. unless you fully support Judge Dredd style "justice", I am not sure how you make it bad enough to do otherwise.

 

[LouderVol]

other than harsher penalty, what would you propose to reduce this crime? Lock toothpaste in plexiglass?

remove the politicians, and the mindset that elected them. focus the government to ensure that people can legally employ themselves while not artificially increasing things like energy costs, or inflation in general. I would look at focuses on small businesses instead of red tape that encourages corporations.

there is no immediate fix, imo. even if you shot everyone stealing the toothpaste, you would literally have to depopulate the area to keep it from happening. poor is poor.

 

[C-south]

Check the data. It's just not a deterent.

Then increase the punishment.

 

[LouderVol]

Then increase the punishment.

doesn't work. the US and China have the highest incarceration levels, and execute the most people. not sure how much harsher we can get.

 

[Orangeburst]

remove the politicians, and the mindset that elected them. focus the government to ensure that people can legally employ themselves while not artificially increasing things like energy costs, or inflation in general. I would look at focuses on small businesses instead of red tape that encourages corporations.

there is no immediate fix, imo. even if you shot everyone stealing the toothpaste, you would literally have to depopulate the area to keep it from happening. poor is poor.

fairy dust solutions. Just face it, they steal because they can get away with it with a slap on the wrist if even that.

 

[LouderVol]

fairy dust solutions. Just face it, they steal because they can get away with it with a slap on the wrist if even that.

they steal because its the most reliable way to provide for themselves.

yeah it doesn't completely fix the issue if you fix the economy, but neither would shooting every criminal. my fairy dust is just a lot less violent than yours and at least has some historical backing.

 

[Orangeburst]

they steal because its the most reliable way to provide for themselves.

yeah it doesn't completely fix the issue if you fix the economy, but neither would shooting every criminal. my fairy dust is just a lot less violent than yours and at least has some historical backing.

you are the one bringing up shooting people..hyperbolic much?

 

[LouderVol]

you are the one bringing up shooting people..hyperbolic much?

I am not on the harsher punishment side. we already have the death penalty, not sure how much more harsh than that you want to get.

are the crime rates any lower in states with death penalties than those without? Don't get me the best vs the worse, because I am sure the opposite applies just as well.

 

[Orangeburst]

I am not on the harsher punishment side. we already have the death penalty, not sure how much more harsh than that you want to get.

are the crime rates any lower in states with death penalties than those without? Don't get me the best vs the worse, because I am sure the opposite applies just as well.

I wasnt speaking about the DP at all.

But I bet if a thief thinks he will get shot committing shoplifting, then shoplifting is dramatically reduced. Not that I advocate.

Severity of Consequence drives human behavior, just as we were children.

 

[C-south]

I am not on the harsher punishment side. we already have the death penalty, not sure how much more harsh than that you want to get.

are the crime rates any lower in states with death penalties than those without? Don't get me the best vs the worse, because I am sure the opposite applies just as well.

Crime rate isn’t the gospel and shouldn’t stop the law from being enforced.

 

[LouderVol]

I wasnt speaking about the DP at all.

But I bet if a thief thinks he will get shot committing shoplifting, then shoplifting is dramatically reduced. Not that I advocate.

Severity of Consequence drives human behavior, just as we were children.

but if you don't remove the base conditions creating the bad behavior, whether for kids or crime, you aren't going to end the bad behavior. you are just going to punish more and more people.

when your kid hits you to get your attention, do you turn around and smack the crap out of them until they learn not to? or do you punish once, and then tell them to use their words so that they don't hit again? In that case what has the better long term effect of stopping them from hitting you, or others? You hitting them back, or them learning to use their words and finding a better solution than the bad behavior that got them punished.

in this particular case its obviously a lot more complicated than learning to vocalize, but most of these people have a problem that isn't getting addressed. punishing them more and more and doesn't remove that problem. it isn't the government's job to give them free money, but the government needs to get back to a role which doesn't take away valid opportunities from these people.

 

[LouderVol]

Crime rate isn’t the gospel and shouldn’t stop the law from being enforced.

where did I say to stop enforcing anything?

I am just saying that increasing punishment isn't an effective deterrent.

 

[hog88]

other than harsher penalty, what would you propose to reduce this crime? Lock toothpaste in plexiglass?

Encouraging/promoting the nuclear family unit, better education and expanding opportunities.

 

[C-south]

where did I say to stop enforcing anything?

I am just saying that increasing punishment isn't an effective deterrent.

It doesn’t have to be a deterrent. Believe it or not there are people who don’t care about rules, laws, or consequences. That’s just who they are. In many cases they’re the ones with a rap sheet a mile long that gets off easy multiple times right before they commit a heinous crime.

 

[Orangeburst]

Encouraging/promoting the nuclear family unit, better education and expanding opportunities.

oh please
go scratch yourself

 

[EasternVol]

The difference between a life in prison and a capital is like 500k due to the appeal process for capital cases..but If you eliminate the extra appeals for a capital case your already saving 500k

Without the extra appeals we're close to North Korea.

 

[hog88]

oh please
go scratch yourself

Already ahead of you on that.

 

[Orangeburst]

Anti-abortion activist who led a clinic blockade is sentenced to nearly 5 years in prison

An anti-abortion activist who led others on an invasion and blockade of a reproductive health clinic in the nation's capital was sentenced on Tuesday to nearly five years in prison. Lauren Handy, 30, was among several people convicted of federal civil rights offenses for blockading access to...

www.yahoo.com

can someone explain to me the difference in this and the student orotests, or blocking roads? the double standards are infuriating.

 

[TNVOLNAVY]

Anti-abortion activist who led a clinic blockade is sentenced to nearly 5 years in prison

An anti-abortion activist who led others on an invasion and blockade of a reproductive health clinic in the nation's capital was sentenced on Tuesday to nearly five years in prison. Lauren Handy, 30, was among several people convicted of federal civil rights offenses for blockading access to...

www.yahoo.com

can someone explain to me the difference in this and the student orotests, or blocking roads? the double standards are infuriating.

During the Slick Willy regime the Dems passed a bill that made it a felony to block access to abortion clinics or intimidate those visiting to kill their babies. Comes with harsh penalties also. The RINO Republicucks as usual went along with it.

 

[Carl Pickens]

This is truly a nasty disgusting person(s) who would even dream of doing such a crime.

Throw him in the general population after telling the entire prison population who he is and what he’s done. Let nature take its course….

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

Briana Taylor and now Scottie Scheffler... no one is safe in Louisville... WOW!!!

World's #1 Golfer Tossed Against Car, Arrested In Kentucky -- Calls "Very Chaotic Situation"

The world's #1 golfer Scottie Scheffler was arrested and taken to jail on several charges - including a felony charge of assaulting a police officer, after he tried to bypass a massive traffic backup to enter the Valhalla Golf Club in Louisville Kentucky.