Cultural Marxism and the Birth of Thought Crime

#201
#201
Vol8188 said:
That’s not how that works. Disproportionate outcome is not unjust. Rape laws, murder laws, plenty of laws have disproportionate outcome
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Rape laws are just. Murder laws are just. Therefore, disproportionate outcomes for the guilty are just.

WoD is not just, therefore disproportionate outcomes for the "guilty" are unjust.
 
#202
#202
n_huffhines said:
Rape laws are just. Murder laws are just. Therefore, disproportionate outcomes for the guilty are just.

WoD is not just, therefore disproportionate outcomes for the "guilty" are unjust.
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That’s two separate things. The law is unjust, agreed. The disproportionate outcome however is not due to the law itself being unjust and the phrase racial injustice has a different meaning than a law that’s unjust and effects black people more.
 
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#203
#203
Vol8188 said:
That’s two separate things. The law is unjust, agreed. The disproportionate outcome however is not due to the law itself being unjust and the phrase racial injustice has a different meaning than a law that’s unjust and effects black people more.
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You're completely wrong about this and maybe that's why you're so vehemently opposed to CRT. You don't understand its most valid attack against institutional racism:

CRT is a framework of analysis grounded in critical theory[6] which originated in the mid-1970s in the writings of several American legal scholars, including Derrick Bell, Alan Freeman, Kimberlé Crenshaw, Richard Delgado, Cheryl Harris, Charles R. Lawrence III, Mari Matsuda, and Patricia J. Williams.[7] One tenet of CRT is that racism and disparate racial outcomes are the result of complex, changing, and often subtle social and institutional dynamics, rather than explicit and intentional prejudices of individuals.
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In other words, it's not necessarily racist motives, racist cops, racist laws, etc. that create disparate racially unjust outcomes. You're consumed with whether or not the disproportionate outcome is a product of race, and somehow that would make an unjust arrest just (it doesn't).
 
#204
#204
n_huffhines said:
You're completely wrong about this and maybe that's why you're so vehemently opposed to CRT. You don't understand its most valid attack against institutional racism:



In other words, it's not necessarily racist motives, racist cops, racist laws, etc. that create disparate racially unjust outcomes. You're consumed with whether or not the disproportionate outcome is a product of race, and somehow that would make an unjust arrest just (it doesn't).
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This is cute that you don’t think I understand CRT. I literally listed the five tenants for you the last time we had this conversation.

You can’t proclaim CRT doesn’t consider this racist, the laws racist, nor the cops given their first tenant is literally that racism is inherit in all interactions.

The second tenant of interest converge would argue that your efforts to end the WoD are just another sign of your racism and you’re only interested in this to make yourself appear to be a good white
 
#205
#205
hog88 said:
The WoDs has been the biggest driver in the erosion of our individual rights since WWII. You claim a private business requiring vaccines is a violation of individual liberty and rights but support the WoDs?
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In your opinion what should society do about a drugs ridden subset of society, which again we leads to crime and violence and infringe on other subset of societies rights??
 
#206
#206
n_huffhines said:
So white people account for the highest rate of drug arrests? Incarcerations? White neighborhoods get the most collateral damage? What are you saying?

Whites are more likely to possess marijuana and blacks are 4x as likely to get arrested for possession. In Minnesota, where race relationships are oh-so-sweet, they are 8x as likely to get arrested.
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Again street level drug dealers are more likely to get arrested and are more likely to be carrying weapons with them that makes their sentences longer. Those people are more likely to be African Americans in the larger cities. Also blacks are “4 times as much to get arrested for marijuana possession” because they usually have felony amounts to dealing not just a joint, they usually have a long criminal record or active warrants which maximizes their sentences and arrests and they usually are “possessing” in the commission of more serious crimes.
It’s not a race related issue, no one is going to prison these days for just having a joint
 
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#207
#207
Vol8188 said:
This is cute that you don’t think I understand CRT. I literally listed the five tenants for you the last time we had this conversation.
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Doesn't mean you understand this tenet I've quoted.

You can’t proclaim CRT doesn’t consider this racist, the laws racist, nor the cops given their first tenant is literally that racism is inherit in all interactions.
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I didn't, you waste of time. For the record, you are citing a paper by one guy and are now passing them off as the exclusive tenets of CRT. The Wikipedia page on CRT is extensive and does not seem to cover the idea that "racism is inherent in all interactions" but I can find the tenet I mentioned. This may come as a shock to you, but a Phd student at the University of Wisconsin doesn't get to decide for everybody what CRT is.

Critical race theory - Wikipedia
 
#208
#208
whodeycin85 said:
In your opinion what should society do about a drugs ridden subset of society, which again we leads to crime and violence and infringe on other subset of societies rights??
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Legalize and regulate drugs like we do booze. Overhaul the criminal justice system so that a defendant gets the same resources as the prosecution and restore all civil rights and privileges to people once they complete their sentence.

That’s what I’d do for starters.
 
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#209
#209
n_huffhines said:
Doesn't mean you understand this tenet I've quoted.



I didn't, you waste of time. For the record, you are citing a paper by one guy and are now passing them off as the exclusive tenets of CRT. The Wikipedia page on CRT is extensive and does not seem to cover the idea that "racism is inherent in all interactions" but I can find the tenet I mentioned. This may come as a shock to you, but a Phd student at the University of Wisconsin doesn't get to decide for everybody what CRT is.

Critical race theory - Wikipedia
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By one guy you mean Derrick Bell the Harvard professors who’s considered one of the founders of CRT? Of those 5 claims which do you believe is not from Bell? Do you believe Bell opposes those?

But I’d you’re claiming CRT does not see the discrepancy in outcome as a result of racism, then it’s a result of what?
 
#210
#210
Vol8188 said:
By one guy you mean Derrick Bell the Harvard professors who’s considered one of the founders of CRT? Of those 5 claims which do you believe is not from Bell? Do you believe Bell opposes those?

But I’d you’re claiming CRT does not see the discrepancy in outcome as a result of racism, then it’s a result of what?
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**** all that. You might as well say since Adam Smith didn't talk about comparative advantage, it's not economic theory.

Ask yourself if anything Bell said excludes my point (which happens to come from the opening summary of the Wikipedia page on the topic). He didn't. Stop wasting my time.
 
#211
#211
hog88 said:
Legalize and regulate drugs like we do booze. Overhaul the criminal justice system so that a defendant gets the same resources as the prosecution and restore all civil rights and privileges to people once they complete their sentence.

That’s what I’d do for starters.
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You can’t legalize all drugs it’s not even practical and you still have the same issue with societal problems as now

Defense attorneys make much more than prosecutor’s so you want to pay them taxpayer money too?

So a child rapist out of prison doesn’t need to be on a sex offender list anymore? Terrorist able to carry weapons legally again? Career DUI king able to just get his license back?
 
#212
#212
n_huffhines said:
**** all that. You might as well say since Adam Smith didn't talk about comparative advantage, it's not economic theory.

Ask yourself if anything Bell said excludes my point (which happens to come from the opening summary of the Wikipedia page on the topic). He didn't. Stop wasting my time.
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Lol that’s awesome. You attack my source while using Wikipedia and yet you don’t actually claim to disagree with anything in the source.

I’ll be honest, idk what your point is? It seemed you were claiming the disparity (according to crt) is not because of racist cops, jurors, judges, etc (I think that’s your point anyway). But if that’s the case….then what causes the disparity?

If you’re trying to convince me that a group of people who see all interactions as racist (Bell famously argues Brown vs the board of education was ruled in the favor of integration because of white racism) don’t see the reason for this disparity as racism, then you’ve lost me and I’ll need you to explain
 
#213
#213
Rickyvol77 said:
You can’t legalize all drugs it’s not even practical and you still have the same issue with societal problems as now

Defense attorneys make much more than prosecutor’s so you want to pay them taxpayer money too?

So a child rapist out of prison doesn’t need to be on a sex offender list anymore? Terrorist able to carry weapons legally again? Career DUI king able to just get his license back?
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^^When you think like a hammer everything looks like a nail. What we have been doing for over half a century isn't working and you know what the definition of insanity is don't you.

Legalizing and regulating drugs like alcohol is practical and would be the smart thing to do. So what if we continue to have the same societal problems (those would lessen with fewer people being jailed)? Outlawing drugs sure isn't doing anything but worsening the problems.

So what if a defense attorney makes more than a prosecutor? I'm talking about the resources like testing, investigators, expert witnesses ext. The state has unlimited funds to throw your ass in prison so you should get the same amount of money to defend yourself as the state plans to spend prosecuting you.

And back to this dumb argument. If a person is a danger to the public they should be locked up, so a child rapist should spend the rest of their life in prison. The continual punishment of people that have completed their sentence is the main cause of recidivism.
 
#215
#215
whodeycin85 said:
Can you elaborate on this statement?
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It's hard for felons to find a decent place to live or even a decent job so they end up living in high crime areas struggling to make ends meet. So it's only natural for them to be caught up in criminal activity again.
 
#216
#216
hog88 said:
^^When you think like a hammer everything looks like a nail. What we have been doing for over half a century isn't working and you know what the definition of insanity is don't you.

Legalizing and regulating drugs like alcohol is practical and would be the smart thing to do. So what if we continue to have the same societal problems (those would lessen with fewer people being jailed)? Outlawing drugs sure isn't doing anything but worsening the problems.

So what if a defense attorney makes more than a prosecutor? I'm talking about the resources like testing, investigators, expert witnesses ext. The state has unlimited funds to throw your ass in prison so you should get the same amount of money to defend yourself as the state plans to spend prosecuting you.

And back to this dumb argument. If a person is a danger to the public they should be locked up, so a child rapist should spend the rest of their life in prison. The continual punishment of people that have completed their sentence is the main cause of recidivism.
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Actually the failure to keep violent criminals locked up for good is the reason for recidivism
 
#217
#217
hog88 said:
It's hard for felons to find a decent place to live or even a decent job so they end up living in high crime areas struggling to make ends meet. So it's only natural for them to be caught up in criminal activity again.
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You’re assuming that everyone arrested wants to or is able to change.
 
#220
#220
hog88 said:
It's not just violent criminals, come on.
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What is it then. It’s a small percentage of the US population committing the same crimes over and over again. Look at any major arrest if someone over the age of 21 and you will see they have a long history of that and other crimes. You can’t make people change their stripes
 
#221
#221
Rickyvol77 said:
What is it then. It’s a small percentage of the US population committing the same crimes over and over again. Look at any major arrest if someone over the age of 21 and you will see they have a long history of that and other crimes. You can’t make people change their stripes
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It's 2 fold, one is that once you have a felony on your record you have little chance at getting past menial labor type employment and 2 the lure of easy money from drugs is just too much for a lot of people.

Your way has been a complete and utter failure yet you refuse to look at alternatives.
 
#222
#222
hog88 said:
It's 2 fold, one is that once you have a felony on your record you have little chance at getting past menial labor type employment and 2 the lure of easy money from drugs is just too much for a lot of people.

Your way has been a complete and utter failure yet you refuse to look at alternatives.
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The laws don’t cause people to do drugs or steal crap or hurt people.
 
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