Current status of obamacare.

#26
#26
bam15 said:
More than 31 percent of every dollar spent on health care in the U.S. goes to paperwork, overhead, CEO salaries, profits, etc. The provincial single-payer system in Canada operates with just a 1 percent overhead.
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I'm skeptical of these numbers but:

Efficiency is not a matter of relative portion that goes to "overhead". In this case it is about delivering "x" care at "y" cost.

If a U.S. system delivers "x" care at "y" cost who cares if "y" is made up of 31% overhead so long as "y" in total is less than the "y" of the single payer system. More likely we see the "x" of Canada being less than the "x" of the U.S. system for an insured patient.
 
#27
#27
If you eliminated payroll taxes on small businesses I promise you that they could afford better insurance plans, LG. Payroll taxes are criminal, PERIOD.
 
#28
#28
bam15 said:
More than 31 percent of every dollar spent on health care in the U.S. goes to paperwork, overhead, CEO salaries, profits, etc. The provincial single-payer system in Canada operates with just a 1 percent overhead.
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if its so great in canada then why are canadians comin here to get health care
 
#29
#29
GASOUTHERNVOL said:
if its so great in canada then why are canadians comin here to get health care
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Because there is really no such thing as a free lunch. Lowering cost means rationing care in some form or another. Canada rations through queue times.

EDIT: I just want to make clear that I understand your comment was merely hypothetical. I just thought I'd throw this out there.
 
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#31
#31
bam15 said:
More than 31 percent of every dollar spent on health care in the U.S. goes to paperwork, overhead, CEO salaries, profits, etc. The provincial single-payer system in Canada operates with just a 1 percent overhead.
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It's utter and complete garbage to imply the healthcare insurers are making outsized profits.
 
#32
#32
paul1454 said:
Because there is really no such thing as a free lunch. Lowering cost means rationing care in some form or another. Canada rations through queue times.
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which is awesome when you have an extremely high fever, or need a procedure quickly but have to wait in line for it and it gets worse
 
#35
#35
lawgator1 said:
Great. So small businesses (and some not so small) get to the point where they just cannot afford it if they want to stay in business, so they cancel the plan come renewal time. So even more people are uninsured and when it comes time for their once-easily-treated-cold to plunk them in a hospital bed with pneumonia and they can't pay the bill, the premium rates of the rest of us go up even further.

Yeah, let's keep pushing a system designed to fail. Brilliant.
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This is where you're lost. Government intervention and employee sponsored Cadillac plans have totally removed the buyer / seller relationship.

Educate your staff on the options in the healthcare world, let them know that you're willing to spend x, then let them make decisions about how they insure themselves, even if it means taking the money and self insuring.

Introducing purchasing decisions back into the process and doing away with the localized monopolies that insurers have will go a long way toward stopping the absurd way that we use our great, and expensive, healthcare system.
 
#36
#36
bam15 said:
More than 31 percent of every dollar spent on health care in the U.S. goes to paperwork, overhead, CEO salaries, profits, etc. The provincial single-payer system in Canada operates with just a 1 percent overhead.
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you act as if the vast majority of that paperwork isn't government driven, which is just wrong.
 
#37
#37
BigPapaVol said:
This is where you're lost. Government intervention and employee sponsored Cadillac plans have totally removed the buyer / seller relationship.

Educate your staff on the options in the healthcare world, let them know that you're willing to spend x, then let them make decisions about how they insure themselves, even if it means taking the money and self insuring.

Introducing purchasing decisions back into the process and doing away with the localized monopolies that insurers have will go a long way toward stopping the absurd way that we use our great, and expensive, healthcare system.
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obama's beloved unions are a major source of the buyer problem you mention
 
#39
#39
no you can't regulate apple. the prius loving crowd loves their overpriced, price gouging, products
 
#40
#40
droski said:
obama's beloved unions are a major source of the buyer problem you mention
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Healthcare provision no longer even remotely resembles a marketplace filled with buying decisions. It's just a disaster the way the average American decides things regarding health.

Essentially, we default to the most expensive, and typically unnecessary, option first and go from the there. Amazingly enough, the most expensive option is almost always available. It's crazy.
 
#41
#41
BigPapaVol said:
Healthcare provision no longer even remotely resembles a marketplace filled with buying decisions. It's just a disaster the way the average American decides things regarding health.

Essentially, we default to the most expensive, and typically unnecessary, option first and go from the there. Amazingly enough, the most expensive option is almost always available. It's crazy.
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I suffer from the same what if problem. After seeing my sister get cancer and not be able to go to the top specialists the extra $20 a month seems worth having the cadillac coverage. though i'm sure it will cost me far more in the long run than i get out of it. perhaps i should invest that extra $20 in a HSA.
 
#42
#42
lumberjack4 said:
Yeah a 2.5% profit margin seems ridiculous to me as well...
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Only the truly uninformed believes that number. That may be their EPS number after the folks running it take billions in bonuses. But believe me, their margin is waaaaaaay more than 2.5 pct.
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#45
#45
BigPapaVol said:
Healthcare provision no longer even remotely resembles a marketplace filled with buying decisions. It's just a disaster the way the average American decides things regarding health.

Essentially, we default to the most expensive, and typically unnecessary, option first and go from the there. Amazingly enough, the most expensive option is almost always available. It's crazy.
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What amazes me is how few people recognize the long-term problems associated with third-party payments. The other day, I couldn't help but laugh when I saw a commercial advertising maintenance and repair insurance for vehicles. I thought to myself, public option, community ratings, and mandatory purchases with respect to auto repair insurance ... here we come.
 
#46
#46
lawgator1 said:
Only the truly uninformed believes that number. That may be their EPS number after the folks running it take billions in bonuses. But believe me, their margin is waaaaaaay more than 2.5 pct.
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jesus. your knowledge of this stuff is truly embarassing. do you realize all bonuses are disclosed in the filings? surely the shareholders wouldn't be particurally happy with billions of thier money going to nothing. the banks and the health insurers have a completely different compensation structure.
 
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#47
#47
lawgator1 said:
Only the truly uninformed believes that number. That may be their EPS number after the folks running it take billions in bonuses. But believe me, their margin is waaaaaaay more than 2.5 pct.
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forgive me for doubting when you did say "Believe me", but can I get a link to proof they are fudging their numbers?
 
#48
#48
lawgator1 said:
Only the truly uninformed believes that number. That may be their EPS number after the folks running it take billions in bonuses. But believe me, their margin is waaaaaaay more than 2.5 pct.
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Please enlighten us with the real number then. Just because the government runs everything at a loss doesn't mean 2.5% is outrageous. In fact, if all I was getting was a 2.5% return on my investment I'd look elsewhere.
 
#49
#49
droski said:
jesus. your knowledge of this stuff is truly embarassing. do you realize all bonuses are disclosed in the filings? surely the shareholders wouldn't be particurally happy with billions of thier money going to nothing. the banks and the health insurers have a completely different compensation structure.
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Not all insurers are publicly traded, and not at all levels. Some mutuals, for example, are not traded.

However, to the extent that they are, you are right that the shareholders probably aren't doing enough to combat this problem.

But that does not in any way contradict my point that "profit margin" in the context of many corporate entitites doesn't mean what a lot of people think it means.



BOTTOM LINE: The current system of insuring for health care costs is doomed. It is unsustainable. It is wrecking the economy in a much more steady drumbeat fashion than all the stimulus programs put together.

It simply cannot last doing what it does now and someone is going to have to have the political will to either cut back on health care services for everyone or figure out a way to pay for it.
 
#50
#50
lawgator1 said:
Not all insurers are publicly traded, and not at all levels. Some mutuals, for example, are not traded.

However, to the extent that they are, you are right that the shareholders probably aren't doing enough to combat this problem.
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when did i say the shareholders aren't doing enough? there is no problem. salaries and bonuses at health insureres are no greater than they are in any other industry.
 
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