D4H's 2018 NBA Draft Preview

#51
#51
FleeceItOut said:
You’re spouting nonsense. You do realize that they played different positions to right?

Plus here’s a comparison. Tim Duncan was a better defender. Again, Tim is the greatest PF of all time.

Tim Duncan vs. David Robinson Comparison
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I realize that they play two different positions. Robinson was a center, mostly in the 90's. Duncan was an F, mostly in the 2000's. You're counting awards and the 90's was full of great centers and there is only one spot on all-NBA and all-defense. Duncan was competing for one of two spots.

You didn't argue any of the points I made. Do you disagree that David Robinson is the better scorer? He was much more efficient, he won a scoring title, and he did 70 in one game. He also won DPOY.

He was the better talent.
 
#52
#52
n_huffhines said:
I realize that they play two different positions. Robinson was a center, mostly in the 90's. Duncan was an F, mostly in the 2000's. You're counting awards and the 90's was full of great centers and there is only one spot on all-NBA and all-defense. Duncan was competing for one of two spots.

You didn't argue any of the points I made. Do you disagree that David Robinson is the better scorer? He was much more efficient, he won a scoring title, and he did 70 in one game. He also won DPOY.

He was the better talent.
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So you want me to do what you did?

Scoring- Push
Defense-Duncan
Passing- Duncan
Rebounds- Push
Championships- Duncan
Accolades- Duncan
Better for longer period of time- Duncan
 
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#54
#54
Before Robinson's injury in '97, his worst scoring season was 23.4 ppg and .569 ts%. That would have been Duncan's 2nd best scoring season.
 
#57
#57
David Robinson was a force of nature right away after his Navy commitment and flourished all the way til his injured 6 game season in 96, which coincidentally was the season that the Spurs qualified for the lottery and (of course) landed the number one pick Tim Duncan. Robinson averaged 21 Duncan’s rookie season but took a backseat for the remainder of his career. Duncan was the focal point of that organization for the 20 seasons he was there. Robinson for 8 of his 15 (that’s including the 6 game season). Robinson the better scorer until Duncan arrived and never the complete rebounding and defensive and basketball smart package that took over. It wasn’t a coincidence that the Spurs didn’t win a championship until Duncan arrived. Maybe Popovich taking over before the Larry Brown stint and (yikes) Jerry Tarkanian fiasco would have netted one during Robinson’s prime but MAYBE wasn’t a Spurs buzzword after the best player in their history reported to training camp.
 
#58
#58
Dobbs 4 Heisman said:
I don't judge players based on hype, stats, or rings. I watch the tape and judge their impact on the game as well as their skills and ability. Scottie Pippen is easily one of the 10 best players in NBA history. He's the greatest perimeter defender of all-time. Put him on any wing in NBA history and he's locking them up. His length and athleticism are unparalleled. He's also one of the best point forwards of all-time. As good as it gets passing the ball and pushing the pace full court after a rebound. His footwork in the post was also elite for perimeter player.

My Top 10 NBA Players (based on watching them play):

1. Michael Jordan
2. Kobe Bryant
3. Hakeem Olajuwon
4. Shaquille O'Neal
5. LeBron James
6. Scottie Pippen
7. David Robinson
8. Tracy McGrady
9. Kevin Garnett
10. Kevin Durant

This list doesn't include players before the 1990s because I never got to see them play in their prime so I would be doing them an injustice to try and rank them. So out of fairness I have omitted them.
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Jesus is this your attempt at parody? Lebron at 5? Behind Hakeem and Shaq?? There is at least a semi decent argument for Kobe above Lebron but even thats slim. But there is no way Lebron is 5th all time. Lebron should not be ranked below 2-3.

Pippen? TMac? Garnett? Durant? Robinson? Dude this list you have put right here shows your BB knowledge is almost as bad as your football IQ.
 
#59
#59
FleeceItOut said:
Career average of 21 vs career average of 19. I’d call it a push.
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That's like 12% more PPG, how is that a push? You're completely ignoring scoring efficiency. Also, look at what they did in their primes. It's not a difference of just 2 ppg.

Robinson shot a fantastic .583 TS%

Duncan shot .551

To put that in perspective, average is about .535, so Duncan was just .016 better than average and Robinson was .032 better than Duncan. This is a big margin.
 
#60
#60
butchna said:
David Robinson was a force of nature right away after his Navy commitment and flourished all the way til his injured 6 game season in 96, which coincidentally was the season that the Spurs qualified for the lottery and (of course) landed the number one pick Tim Duncan. Robinson averaged 21 Duncan’s rookie season but took a backseat for the remainder of his career. Duncan was the focal point of that organization for the 20 seasons he was there. Robinson for 8 of his 15 (that’s including the 6 game season). Robinson the better scorer until Duncan arrived and never the complete rebounding and defensive and basketball smart package that took over. It wasn’t a coincidence that the Spurs didn’t win a championship until Duncan arrived. Maybe Popovich taking over before the Larry Brown stint and (yikes) Jerry Tarkanian fiasco would have netted one during Robinson’s prime but MAYBE wasn’t a Spurs buzzword after the best player in their history reported to training camp.
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Yeah, because then they had 2 stars (and then later 3 and 4 stars) plus Popovich. It's not like Duncan filled in for Robinson and they suddenly won.

How many titles does Robinson win with Parker, Ginobili, and Pop (and then Kawhi)? We don't know, so it's hard to just count rings.
 
#61
#61
n_huffhines said:
Yeah, because then they had 2 stars (and then later 3 and 4 stars) plus Popovich. It's not like Duncan filled in for Robinson and they suddenly won.

How many titles does Robinson win with Parker, Ginobili, and Pop (and then Kawhi)? We don't know, so it's hard to just count rings.
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They won one with Kawhi, right? And one with Avery Johnson instead of Tony and two with David Robinson. The only common denominator in all SIX is Duncan. Easier to count when you just do it. :)
 
#62
#62
butchna said:
They won one with Kawhi, right? And one with Avery Johnson instead of Tony and two with David Robinson. The only common denominator in all SIX is Duncan. Easier to count when you just do it. :)
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It's 5, and Pop is a common denominator in all 5, too. Duncan averaged 15 ppg in the last title run. Pop's system has been incredible. They were missing their best player this year and they still won 47 games.
 
#63
#63
n_huffhines said:
It's 5, and Pop is a common denominator in all 5, too. Duncan averaged 15 ppg in the last title run. Pop's system has been incredible. They were missing their best player this year and they still won 47 games.
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Yeah mixed up conference titles and actual ones. :hi: I give Popovich his due of course but this past season showed how much Leonard is NOT the cornerstone that Duncan was. Popovich’s greatest tactic was the amount of rest he afforded Duncan during the season (especially in his later seasons) to get him ready for the playoffs. A strategy most likely learned from Robinson’s injury shortened 6 game season. This allowed Duncan to produce for 20 seasons as their greatest player.
 
#64
#64
butchna said:
Yeah mixed up conference titles and actual ones. :hi: I give Popovich his due of course but this past season showed how much Leonard is NOT the cornerstone that Duncan was. Popovich’s greatest tactic was the amount of rest he afforded Duncan during the season (especially in his later seasons) to get him ready for the playoffs. A strategy most likely learned from Robinson’s injury shortened 6 game season. This allowed Duncan to produce for 20 seasons as their greatest player.
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Not sure how you can conclude this? Everybody thought Spurs/Warriors was going to be a great series in 2017. Spurs were up 23 points on the road in game 1 when Kawhi got hurt. They went from title contender to swept in the WCF and from 61 wins to 47 without Kawhi...
 
#65
#65
n_huffhines said:
Not sure how you can conclude this? Everybody thought Spurs/Warriors was going to be a great series in 2017. Spurs were up 23 points on the road in game 1 when Kawhi got hurt. They went from title contender to swept in the WCF and from 61 wins to 47 without Kawhi...
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I’m a results guy. I’ll leave the “coulds” to you theoretical physicists. :good!:
 
#67
#67
n_huffhines said:
This doesn't even make sense. My point was about the dropoff with and without Kawhi, which is not a hypothetical. We saw the drop off.
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I feel the “would have been a great series” isn’t FACT based, but once again I’m not on the think tank that the producers of the Big Bang Theory rely on to keep that sitcom so eerily scientific balls accurate. :)
 
#70
#70
RDU VOL#14 said:
Pippen a top 10 all time player? No. Great. Yes . Not top 10.
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Agree. Not even close. I was surprised he made the Top 50 list when they announced it back in the day. So, imho, if he deserves to be in the list, it’s in the 45-50 range.
 
#71
#71
KBVol said:
Agree. Not even close. I was surprised he made the Top 50 list when they announced it back in the day. So, imho, if he deserves to be in the list, it’s in the 45-50 range.
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Jesus.

He might be the best perimeter defender all time and he was an all-star on offense.
 
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#73
#73
Pippen was my favorite player growing up. He isn't top 10, but he's definitely top 25. He affected every phase of the game at an elite level except maybe rebounding. Good rebounder, but not elite. Elite scorer, defender, distributor.
 
#74
#74
IDK that I would call Pip an elite scorer, when MJ was gone he just averaged 21 and 22. I never viewed him as a guy that could just take over a game by scoring. JMO I think I'd have him 35ish, just going by me having him 6th among SFs, and you could argue Hondo over him.
 
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#75
#75
BadJerry20 said:
IDK that I would call Pip an elite scorer, when MJ was gone he just averaged 21 and 22. I never viewed him as a guy that could just take over a game by scoring. JMO I think I'd have him 35ish, just going by me having him 6th among SFs, and you could argue Hondo over him.
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Yeah, he isn't elite in the Jordan, LeBron, Kobe sense in terms of volume. I just meant he could score in so many ways (shooting, driving, rebound-putback). He was very multi-dimensional, much like what today's player looks like.

When Rick Barnes made the comment that he'd like to have 5 6-7 guys on the floor at all times (paraphrasing), players like Pip immediately came to mind. He could play PG and score from there. He could play SG and score from there. He could play SF and score from there. He could also pass, rebound, and defend all of those positions at very high levels.

Maybe it's more accurate to say his scoring versatility was elite rather than to say he was an elite scorer, because he was never the volume scorer at the level of the aforementioned players.
 
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