Dave Hart Quotes from Article on TOS

[TOP]

If I'm wrong then you should be able to tell me the coach who won the last D-2 title without looking it up.

You've never been right about anything.

Go cheer for Alabama's offensive coordinator.

 

[bowlinggreenvol]

Three things I take from those Hart quotes.

1. He isn't satisfied missing the tournament three years in a row. CCM has been put on notice publicly now. A change may come if he misses it.

2. However, a change will only be facilitated if the financials are right, because as he said, football comes first. This means, to me, that they won't break the bank for a proven big name, and most likely, after paying Martin's buyout, we will be bargain hunting again hoping to catch lightning in a bottle. Some things never change.

3. Hart has low-level expectations for our basketball program. I had hoped for more given his basketball background, but he seems like Doug Dickey part deux.

I don't get the part where he doesn't have high expectations. He said he's not happy with missing the postseason, that was ok with Dickey and Hamilton. Everyone's dream is to make the Final 4, considering we've never been there our goal at minimum should be making the tourney, which is clearly Hart's goal.

 

[knowthevols]

I don't get the part where he doesn't have high expectations. He said he's not happy with missing the postseason, that was ok with Dickey and Hamilton. Everyone's dream is to make the Final 4, considering we've never been there our goal at minimum should be making the tourney, which is clearly Hart's goal.

We have people on this board that don't have or want high expectations and that I can't understand.

 

[VolinArizona]

Both from a recent article by John Brice on VQ regarding basketball attendance. The article also mentions that season ticket sales have declined since 2008-2009 from 16,645 to 12,024 in Men's Basketball. This would include while Pearl was here.

You can infer what you want from this but it tells me a couple things.

1. If we make the tournament, Cuonzo will be back. If he misses, he will be gone. That's how I see it. Hard to tell the exact way he stated the quote just by reading it, but you would think if we miss the tournament he will be gone. Hart doesn't seem pleased that we could miss it for 3 years in a row. The fact that he explicitly states that post season play means NCAA and not NIT tells me as much.

2. Football is a priority and always will be. There's nothing wrong with that. It is our biggest money maker. To me that means if we do hire a new coach, he will not be spending a ton of money on that new coach. That means we are looking at another CCM type hire if we don't get Pearl. That means guys like Marshall, Howland, and other big names mentioned would most likely be out as I don't see him spending more on a basketball coach than he is on Butch.

4,642 season tickets. Doesn't sound like a lot. But it is.

Upper level season tickets are around $180. Lower level are around $440. Let's take an average of that - $310.

4,642 x $310 = $1,439,020 in lost revenue in tickets alone. That doesn't even take into account the donations that go along with the lower-level season tickets. They require a $2,500 donation, which could be used for UTMBB, UTWBB, and football.

We're talking upwards of $3million in lost revenue per year without adding concessions, parking, merchandise.

 

[BigZiti09]

4,642 season tickets. Doesn't sound like a lot. But it is.

Upper level season tickets are around $180. Lower level are around $440. Let's take an average of that - $310.

4,642 x $310 = $1,439,020 in lost revenue in tickets alone. That doesn't even take into account the donations that go along with the lower-level season tickets. They require a $2,500 donation, which could be used for UTMBB, UTWBB, and football.

We're talking upwards of $3million in lost revenue per year without adding concessions, parking, merchandise.

Those donations are being made for football tickets in most cases. The basketball tickets are purchased because they've already made the donation in order to purchase football tickets.

I would bet there are few, if any lower level donations in TBA that don't also have football tickets. So the donations won't disappear in most cases I wouldn't think.

 

[cncchris33]

I don't get the part where he doesn't have high expectations. He said he's not happy with missing the postseason, that was ok with Dickey and Hamilton. Everyone's dream is to make the Final 4, considering we've never been there our goal at minimum should be making the tourney, which is clearly Hart's goal.

I was hoping Hart, being a guy with a basketball background, would have had higher expectations for our basketball program than Dickey (football guy) or Hamilton (bean counter).

In other words, being on par with DD and MH is a disappointment to me. Making the tourney is a reasonable goal, but I don't want it to be our ultimate goal. Under Dickey and Hamilton, we seemed to be satisfied at JUST making the tourney. I want our AD, being a basketball guy, to want more than that, and not be timid about making that known publicly, both in word and in action. I didn't get that impression from his comments, though admittedly, I may be overanalyzing what he said (or didn't say).

 

[BigZiti09]

4,642 season tickets. Doesn't sound like a lot. But it is.

Upper level season tickets are around $180. Lower level are around $440. Let's take an average of that - $310.

4,642 x $310 = $1,439,020 in lost revenue in tickets alone. That doesn't even take into account the donations that go along with the lower-level season tickets. They require a $2,500 donation, which could be used for UTMBB, UTWBB, and football.

We're talking upwards of $3million in lost revenue per year without adding concessions, parking, merchandise.

You can't count all 4,642 tickets as lost revenue as far as firing/hiring Cuonzo Martin this spring. You are talking about our peak attendance in hoops EVER and comparing it to now. The question that needs to be answered is how much money do you lose by keeping Cuonzo vs hiring a new coach? Looking at the 2014-15 year.

Let's say that you feel like you lose another 1,000 season ticket holders next year. I think that is a conservative number. I think the area where you'll see the biggest drop will be in the uppers. Lower level season tickets will not drop as much because the donations are higher and they are getting football tickets. So instead of $310 average, I think $250 is probably closer. Now, you're just talking about a loss of $250,000 in ticket sales. But if the ticket sales drop to say 1500 then you're talking about closer to 400k.

The number that is harder to figure is what does keeping him cost in the long run. What does it cost to lose another year in recruiting by having a lame duck head coach? Plus, if you keep him, you've almost got to extend him. That's just kicking the can down the road.

Also, depending on the hire, you could excite the fanbase and see ticket sales increase. So let's say you sold 1k more season tickets instead of losing 1k. That's a half million dollar swing minimum. If you bring back Pearl or hire a decent "name" coach, I think that number could even double.

Also, the AD will consider that not only will we have to buyout CCM, but if you hire another active head coach, then you'll have to pay their buyout as well. And any coach worth having is going to have a decent buyout. This, IMO, is another advantage to hiring Pearl or Ben Howland.

 

[bleedingTNorange]

4,642 season tickets. Doesn't sound like a lot. But it is.

Upper level season tickets are around $180. Lower level are around $440. Let's take an average of that - $310.

4,642 x $310 = $1,439,020 in lost revenue in tickets alone. That doesn't even take into account the donations that go along with the lower-level season tickets. They require a $2,500 donation, which could be used for UTMBB, UTWBB, and football.

We're talking upwards of $3million in lost revenue per year without adding concessions, parking, merchandise.

I've been saying the same thing for the last month. People saying Hart will only keep Martin because of buyout and money don't understand the reality of it.

If hart keeps Martin it's hart saying he truly believes Martin is his guy and can get it done here.

 

[BigZiti09]

I've been saying the same thing for the last month. People saying Hart will only keep Martin because of buyout and money don't understand the reality of it.

If hart keeps Martin it's hart saying he truly believes Martin is his guy and can get it done here.

I don't think it is quite that simple.

 

[bleedingTNorange]

I don't think it is quite that simple.

What money initiative is there to retain him?

 

[Sudden Impact]

The Vol Colonel's laydown on Tony Basilio's blog is a real eye opener. Clears up a lot and yes it is just an opinion but it makes more sense regarding the situation than the board does at the moment.

 

[BigZiti09]

What money initiative is there to retain him?

I just don't think it is as simple as fire him = more money

$1.6 million to fire him

Then you have to hire a better coach and that's going to take more $ than we are currently spending.

I'd imagine you will have to pay some buyout money to fire his assistants but not certain

If you hire a good coach, the assistant coach money pool will have to go up as well.

If you hire a current head coach, you're going to have to buy him out if his current deal.

Long term I think it is definitely more costly to retain him vs firing him, assuming we make a good hire to recover cost. Short term I'm not so sure.

 

[bleedingTNorange]

I just don't think it is as simple as fire him = more money

$1.6 million to fire him

Then you have to hire a better coach and that's going to take more $ than we are currently spending.

I'd imagine you will have to pay some buyout money to fire his assistants but not certain

If you hire a good coach, the assistant coach money pool will have to go up as well.

If you hire a current head coach, you're going to have to buy him out if his current deal.

Long term I think it is definitely more costly to retain him vs firing him, assuming we make a good hire to recover cost. Short term I'm not so sure.

The 1.6 is only assuming we keep him 3 more years, if you wait till next year it's still 800k. So for discussions sake let's say $800k is what the cost to really buy him out would be.

What's the total cost in your opinion of removing this staff and bringing in a new one?

800k to Zo, say 200k to assistants so there's $1m. For arguement sake, Pear would cost what $2m? His assistants at the most another $1m and that's going high. So $4m total the cost to clean out and bring in a whole new staff?

We'd lose more than that by keeping Zo next year, no?

 

[BigZiti09]

The 1.6 is only assuming we keep him 3 more years, if you wait till next year it's still 800k. So for discussions sake let's say $800k is what the cost to really buy him out would be.

What's the total cost in your opinion of removing this staff and bringing in a new one?

800k to Zo, say 200k to assistants so there's $1m. For arguement sake, Pear would cost what $2m? His assistants at the most another $1m and that's going high. So $4m total the cost to clean out and bring in a whole new staff?

We'd lose more than that by keeping Zo next year, no?

No, I don't think so. You wouldn't make that $4 million up in one year and I think that's what Hart will take into consideration. That's why I say short term, you lose money. Long term, you make money assuming you make the right hire. Hart realizes this but he is likely to defer to keeping Cuonzo another year whether he believes in him or not. I don't think you'll see the huge drop in ticket sales that many think. Due largely to the fact that most of the donors are donating for football tickets and getting bball tickets because they have already made the donation. Also, they don't want to give up their spot and then see us hire a good coach a year later and they have already lost their seats.

And you and I have talked before about what not extending him would do to recruiting. If he stays you almost have to extend him. Certainly do if he makes the tourney and you keep him.

 

[bleedingTNorange]

No, I don't think so. You wouldn't make that $4 million up in one year and I think that's what Hart will take into consideration.

You don't think there's a $4 million swing at least in Martin being here next year versus Pearl?

 

[BigZiti09]

You don't think there's a $4 million swing at least in Martin being here next year versus Pearl?

With Pearl, the difference may be there which is why I don't ignore that as a possibility.

If we don't hire Pearl, I think the UTAD will likely lose money by firing Cuonzo.

Pearl has the following in his corner:
1. He would be relatively cheap considering the quality of head coach you'd be getting
2. He would draw instant revenue for tickets
3. He does not require a large buyout to hire him away from another school

Most other candidates would not have any of the 3 listed above which is why I think firing Cuonzo isn't going to be an easy decision for Hart.

 

[bleedingTNorange]

With Pearl, the difference may be there which is why I don't ignore that as a possibility.

If we don't hire Pearl, I think the UTAD will likely lose money by firing Cuonzo.

Pearl has the following in his corner:
1. He would be relatively cheap considering the quality of head coach you'd be getting
2. He would draw instant revenue for tickets
3. He does not require a large buyout to hire him away from another school

Most other candidates would not have any of the 3 listed above which is why I think firing Cuonzo isn't going to be an easy decision for Hart.

I think Howland could be an option as well that you could more than make up the difference in 1 year. So at a minimum 2 candidates that you're agreeing would make you more than you'd lose by keeping Zo another year.

Yet I don't see Hart making a move if we make the dance, but that's jmo. I just disagree with the common out being thrown around of, if Martin is retained it's because of money, I don't think that's true at all.

 

[BigZiti09]

I think Howland could be an option as well that you could more than make up the difference in 1 year. So at a minimum 2 candidates that you're agreeing would make you more than you'd lose by keeping Zo another year.

Yet I don't see Hart making a move if we make the dance, but that's jmo. I just disagree with the common out being thrown around of, if Martin is retained it's because of money, I don't think that's true at all.

Howland would fit those 3 attributes I stated as well.

I think he gets retained if we go dancing.

 

[bleedingTNorange]

Howland would fit those 3 attributes I stated as well.

I think he gets retained if we go dancing.

I do as well.

And as I've stated, IMO if that's the case you're gonna see Martin get a bonus, raise and extension. This board will go full meltdown.

 

[BOP]

Just shows that this idiot hart is all about the bottom line and not about providing a winner. Im not talking about the basketball situation either. He doesn't care about anything that doesn't make money which is why he is trying to cripple some of the women's sports that some of us enjoy.

 

[Poppa T]

No, I don't think so. You wouldn't make that $4 million up in one year and I think that's what Hart will take into consideration. That's why I say short term, you lose money. Long term, you make money assuming you make the right hire. Hart realizes this but he is likely to defer to keeping Cuonzo another year whether he believes in him or not. I don't think you'll see the huge drop in ticket sales that many think. Due largely to the fact that most of the donors are donating for football tickets and getting bball tickets because they have already made the donation. Also, they don't want to give up their spot and then see us hire a good coach a year later and they have already lost their seats.

And you and I have talked before about what not extending him would do to recruiting. If he stays you almost have to extend him. Certainly do if he makes the tourney and you keep him.

You are correct re: the donation piece. I donate so I can keep my 4 season football tickets. I also have the right to purchase season basketball tickets without additional donation. How many, etc., is based on your level of contribution, how many points you have accumulated over the years, etc. Here is a link that may help show how it is structured. Click on the Donor Benefit Chart and will open it.
Tennessee Fund | Member Benefits

If you want the midcourt seats there is a substantial bump in what you have to give ($10,000) if you are a lower tier donor that gives in the $2000-$5000/year range.

The impact will be in season ticket purchases, mini-packs and single game tickets. In other words, the average attendance metric will start becoming key. The stands looked pretty empty for the Georgia game.

 

[BigZiti09]

You are correct re: the donation piece. I donate so I can keep my 4 season football tickets. I also have the right to purchase season basketball tickets without additional donation. How many, etc., is based on your level of contribution, how many points you have accumulated over the years, etc. Here is a link that may help show how it is structured. Click on the Donor Benefit Chart and will open it.
Tennessee Fund | Member Benefits

If you want the midcourt seats there is a substantial bump in what you have to give ($10,000) if you are a lower tier donor that gives in the $2000-$5000/year range.

The impact will be in season ticket purchases, mini-packs and single game tickets. In other words, the average attendance metric will start becoming key. The stands looked pretty empty for the Georgia game.

Yes. Good post.

 

[lostsheep]

I do as well.

And as I've stated, IMO if that's the case you're gonna see Martin get a bonus, raise and extension. This board will go full meltdown.

IMO this probably happens (bonus, raise & extension)...& it's the worse possible scenario that could play out for the future of UT bball.

 

[Jackcrevol]

Pretty much what we all already know, Martin is coaching for his job the rest of the season.

as he should.

 

[cncchris33]

You are correct re: the donation piece. I donate so I can keep my 4 season football tickets. I also have the right to purchase season basketball tickets without additional donation. How many, etc., is based on your level of contribution, how many points you have accumulated over the years, etc. Here is a link that may help show how it is structured. Click on the Donor Benefit Chart and will open it.
Tennessee Fund | Member Benefits

If you want the midcourt seats there is a substantial bump in what you have to give ($10,000) if you are a lower tier donor that gives in the $2000-$5000/year range.

The impact will be in season ticket purchases, mini-packs and single game tickets. In other words, the average attendance metric will start becoming key. The stands looked pretty empty for the Georgia game.

Georgia being Georgia, and the game being at 9pm on a Tuesday night played a role in attendance I'd guess. Compared to a Tuesday night, 7pm game against Florida (like last week), and you have a considerable difference in actual attendance numbers.