Dear ESPN

#101
#101
BigPapaVol said:
I hear the points about soccer players and the skill required but I'm just not buying that it's the same as our basketball and football players.

The combination of freakish size AND athleticism sets apart the professionals in American sport. I would submit that many of our basketball players and speed football players could be great soccer players with practice. Soccer players trying to play in the NBA or NFL, not so much.

Elite soccer players are very skilled and very good athletes, they're just not freaks like those dominating the NFL and NBA.
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Yes, the air must be magical in the United States. That's why all the world's best athletes just happen to be born here.

EDIT: Why is a big fast guy trying to run around a fat guy for six seconds at a time somehow inherently "more athletic" than somebody who runs for ninety minutes straight, and yet still has enough gas in the tank at the end of the game to still be performing incredibly precise feats of coordination?
 
#102
#102
Vercingetorix said:
Yes, the air must be magical in the United States. That's why all the world's best athletes just happen to be born here.

EDIT: Why is a big fast guy trying to run around a fat guy for six seconds at a time somehow inherently "more athletic" than somebody who runs for ninety minutes straight, and yet still has enough gas in the tank at the end of the game to still be performing incredibly precise feats of coordination?
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I'm not arguing that the US produces the best athletes. I'm arguing that the NFL and NBA are littered with the best athletes. The NBA specifically is filled with international types.

As to the long winded piece in which you describe stamina: everyone on earth has the ability to build stamina. Fitness is not a special gift, it's about effort and discipline.

The guy going for 6 seconds has explosiveness, speed, agility and generally exceptional balance to go with freakish size. Elite athletic ability is rooted in explosiveness to me.

I actually liken the hand-eye coordination required of soccer players to that of golfers or tennis players. The specialized skill in soccer is hand-eye coordination. Those who can combine that with some fast twitch muscle get to be soccer players.
 
#103
#103
BigPapaVol said:
I'm not arguing that the US produces the best athletes. I'm arguing that the NFL and NBA are littered with the best athletes. The NBA specifically is filled with international types.

As to the long winded piece in which you describe stamina: everyone on earth has the ability to build stamina. Fitness is not a special gift, it's about effort and discipline.

The guy going for 6 seconds has explosiveness, speed, agility and generally exceptional balance to go with freakish size. Elite athletic ability is rooted in explosiveness to me.

I actually liken the hand-eye coordination required of soccer players to that of golfers or tennis players. The specialized skill in soccer is hand-eye coordination. Those who can combine that with some fast twitch muscle get to be soccer players.
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It may not be hard to improve fitness in general, but to improve it to the level of 90 minutes probably without a substitution and no stopping of the clock is not something you can just work for and achieve. But the hard part is playing at that time without falling over. Its amazing how a player can make some of the moves they do and shoot as hard as they do at the end of the game.
 
#104
#104
tvolsfan said:
It may not be hard to improve fitness in general, but to improve it to the level of 90 minutes probably without a substitution and no stopping of the clock is not something you can just work for and achieve. But the hard part is playing at that time without falling over. Its amazing how a player can make some of the moves they do and shoot as hard as they do at the end of the game.
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sure you can. the body adapts to the stresses placed upon it. soccer players, good ones and bad ones, do it all the time.

let's not pretend that soccer players are running for 45 minute halves with no breaks. Some in the game run more than others, but none run as much as implied here.

In the end, if we're arguing that soccer players are more fit and that's a huge distinction, then so be it. However, if I wanna watch fitness in action, I find European Grand Tour bike racing more interesting.
 
#105
#105
BigPapaVol said:
The guy going for 6 seconds has explosiveness, speed, agility and generally exceptional balance to go with freakish size. Elite athletic ability is rooted in explosiveness to me.
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You sound just like Mel Kiper. You must love to watch the draft combine.

"Explosiveness" is just a Kiper-ism for "first-step quickness." If you don't think elite soccer players have first-step quickness, then you've obviously never seen someone like Ronaldihno play. Top soccer players do not have so-called "freakish size," of course, but that's because in their sport being enormous doesn't really benefit you at all, and if anything just gets in the way.

If you don't like soccer, fine. I don't really enjoy watching it all that much myself. But you're basically defining "athleticism" as "the attributes that I see emphasized in the sports I like to watch," and then denigrating the most popular sport in the world because it doesn't happen to emphasize the same attributes. You're way too smart to be that much of a nativist.
 
#106
#106
BigPapaVol said:
I actually liken the hand-eye coordination required of soccer players to that of golfers or tennis players. The specialized skill in soccer is hand-eye coordination. Those who can combine that with some fast twitch muscle get to be soccer players.
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there's very little hand-eye coord required in soccer. It's a different talent altogether.

and to claim you could take an NFL/NBA player and put them at an elite level with a little practice is laughable.

You may not appreciate the sport but at least acknowledge the skill.
 
#107
#107
vgtx,

explosiveness is a long way from anything Kiper is talking about.. I'm talking about hurtling 250 lbs to a 40 inch vertical, running 4.4 forties at 235 because it stops opposing backs. I'm talking about shedding a 300 lbman to make a tackle. I'm talking about dunking in traffic. I'm talking about accelerating away from other very athletic people. I'm talking about the quickness, at 6'8" to defend McGrady on the wing.

I'm not denigrating soccer, just trying to evaluate the pure athleticism on display. It's not a nationalism thing.

I truly believe eite soccer players are great athletes. However, I believe that the best athletes in the world are in the NBA and NFL. I'd take the NBA types over all the rest.

as an aside, I hate the NBA.
 
#108
#108
yoy guys are pretending that I know nothing of soccer and don't watch it. You would be exactly wrong. I don't like to watch it, but I have plenty bcause my wife is a player and fan.
 
#109
#109
I find it absolutely hilarious anytime someone uses the "no hands" argument. You do realize you have MORE control over a ball with your hands than you do your feet, right?

The people who think soccer is easy are the same people, that if I took them to the pitch tomorrow, wouldn't be able to kick straight to save their lives.
 
#111
#111
VolfanMike said:
you can't use your hands. All they do is run up and down a football field. Not doubting the conditioning but, the talent that it takes is questionable.
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This guy is arguing no hands.

I also don't believe he understands how difficult it is to kick a ball 30 yards on a dime.
 
#115
#115
I didn't mean on goal either. I meant in general. If they were that accurate, AND great athletes receiving, we'd see fewer TOs
 
#116
#116
BigPapaVol said:
vgtx,

explosiveness is a long way from anything Kiper is talking about.. I'm talking about hurtling 250 lbs to a 40 inch vertical, running 4.4 forties at 235 because it stops opposing backs. I'm talking about shedding a 300 lbman to make a tackle. I'm talking about dunking in traffic. I'm talking about accelerating away from other very athletic people. I'm talking about the quickness, at 6'8" to defend McGrady on the wing.

I'm not denigrating soccer, just trying to evaluate the pure athleticism on display. It's not a nationalism thing.

I truly believe eite soccer players are great athletes. However, I believe that the best athletes in the world are in the NBA and NFL. I'd take the NBA types over all the rest.

as an aside, I hate the NBA.
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Other than pure foot speed, you're choosing a specific group of skills that have been developed for success in a particular sport and calling that "athleticism." How would Julius Peppers do in a pole vault or high jump? How would McGrady do in the shot put? How would Dwight Howard do in a 10,000-meter speed skating race? I don't know that those events are any more arbitrary yardsticks for athleticism than running around a big guy to make a tackle or dunking a basketball.
 
#117
#117
BigPapaVol said:
I didn't mean on goal either. I meant in general. If they were that accurate, AND great athletes receiving, we'd see fewer TOs
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Then why are there incomplete passes in football? There is no doubt that there are great athletes throwing and exceptional athletes receiving.
 
#118
#118
I'm actually talking about raw athleticism. forget the skills. I'm trying to leave skill aside. Exlosive athletic ability, fast twitch muscle. the God given stuff, before it started being honed into skill.
 
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