Debt ceiling: here we go AGAIN

[Tin Man]

An example of delusion: I am the one. All of you may follow me and pick up after my dog.





Luckily for VN, my wife’s a cat person.

 

[Tin Man]

 

[Tin Man]

I was alive October 1990 when the Democrat controlled house did just that. It was resolved when Bush I went back on his word and agreed to tax increases.

Besides none of them are going to allow us to default, it's just bluster. Don't be so dramatic.

Whippersnapper

 

[Orangeburst]

I was alive October 1990 when the Democrat controlled house did just that. It was resolved when Bush I went back on his word and agreed to tax increases.

Besides none of them are going to allow us to default, it's just bluster. Don't be so dramatic.

Read my lips

 

[McDad]

One thing is irrefutable. Ds have mastered the PR of taxes relative to debt and deficits. Thoughtful, rational people are absolutely convinced tax rates and tax cuts put a strain on US fiscal obligations.

It has never been true and there is almost 80 years of data to prove it.

 

[hog88]

Whippersnapper

I was also alive during the 81, 84 and 86 shutdowns. Even alive during the first ever shutdown in 1980.

 

[Franklin Pierce]

McConnell to propose deal with Schumer to solve debt impasse

Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-Ky.) told Republican colleagues at lunch Wednesday that he will make a new offer to Senate Majority Leader Charles Schumer (D-N.Y.) on a path forward to raising the nation’s debt limit, marking the start of long-awaiting negotiations between the two leaders.

“I think you’re going to hear from Leader McConnell. He’s going to outline the proposal that he is prepared to discuss with Leader Schumer, and I think that’s going to give us a way out of the woods, which is what we want,” Sen. Lisa Murkowski (R-Alaska) told reporters after the lunch.

Murkowski said she knew the parameters of the deal McConnell will offer Schumer but declined to discuss specifics, saying she would leave it to the leader.

Senators say they are not aware of any talks between McConnell and Schumer over the looming expiration of the federal debt limit, which the Treasury Department says will happen by Oct. 18.

McConnell to propose deal with Schumer to solve debt impasse

 

[Tin Man]

@Tin Man
Do you want the Rs to fight debt ceilings at all times in opposition to any president or party?
Or, do you want Rs to fight debt ceilings against R presidents and agree to increased debt under D presidents?

Before we have a credit rating worse than Italy and the dollar is valued akin to the Indonesian rupee, before we are a de facto colony of China, one party or another will embrace fiscal responsibility as a central plank of their platform. The Republicans appear poised to self-destruct and/or reinvent themselves. Their opportunity seems closer.

 

[Tin Man]

I was also alive during the 81, 84 and 86 shutdowns. Even alive during the first ever shutdown in 1980.

Whippersnapper

 

[VolStrom]

I was also alive during the 81, 84 and 86 shutdowns. Even alive during the first ever shutdown in 1980.

Whippersnapper.

 

[hog88]

Before we have a credit rating worse than Italy and the dollar is valued akin to the Indonesian rupee, before we are a de facto colony of China, one party or another will embrace fiscal responsibility as a central plank of their platform. The Republicans appear poised to self-destruct and/or reinvent themselves. Their opportunity seems closer.

 

[hog88]

Whippersnapper.

I don't find that insulting in the least.

 

[Tin Man]

Read my lips

^^^^^^^
appropriate humor

 

[Tin Man]

I don't find that insulting in the least.

I’ve not intended any insult, tinklewicket.

 

[McDad]

Before we have a credit rating worse than Italy and the dollar is valued akin to the Indonesian rupee, before we are a de facto colony of China, one party or another will embrace fiscal responsibility as a central plank of their platform. The Republicans appear poised to self-destruct and/or reinvent themselves. Their opportunity seems closer.

I see no evidence one party will embrace a fiduciary approach with our credit, value of dollar, or to American citizens. I certainly see no evidence either party is closer to that standard based on actions instead of rhetoric.

Both are beholden to their base and their lobbyists. Neither's base wants to defund their sacred cows. Both bases want to defund the other's sacred cows. The dynamics are untenable.

 

[Tin Man]

Challenge! Debt ceiling and or default memes.

 

[Tin Man]

I see no evidence one party will embrace a fiduciary approach with our credit, value of dollar, or to American citizens. I certainly see no evidence either party is closer to that standard based on actions instead of rhetoric.

Both are beholden to their base and their lobbyists. Neither's base wants to defund their sacred cows. Both bases want to defund the other's sacred cows. The dynamics are untenable.

Yes.

 

[Tin Man]

Dagnabbit! Work requires all of my attention, presently.

 

[McDad]

Yes.

Here's the worst of it all. The most unconscionable act of cowardice I have ever seen from "leaders". They are burdening our children, grandchildren and further generations with cleaning up the mess. They are stealing money and liberty from citizens both unable to vote and who have yet to be born. These future generations have no representation in our representative government.

 

[hog88]

I see no evidence one party will embrace a fiduciary approach with our credit, value of dollar, or to American citizens. I certainly see no evidence either party is closer to that standard based on actions instead of rhetoric.

Both are beholden to their base and their lobbyists. Neither's base wants to defund their sacred cows. Both bases want to defund the other's sacred cows. The dynamics are untenable.

Agreed. Our debt is low on the list of concerns for any of our elected officials or political parties, it's like immigration and nothing but a political football.

 

[85SugarVol]

the dirty secret about the debt ceiling is that debt is first in line to be paid (I believe Constitutionally). we have enough revenue coming in to service the debt so default should never be the threat. the threat is that some of our existing programs will NOT receive funding if we don't raise the debt ceiling and no one wants to cut anything even if temporarily.

we have plenty of money to pay the debt

i did not know this. Any good links you can share?

 

[volinbham]

i did not know this. Any good links you can share?

Heard it first on Levin. Looks to be an interpretation of the 14th Amendment debt clause.

This article explores it some: Debt limit options narrowing, 14th Amendment chatter returns - Roll Call

In 2011, Tribe argued that the amendment did not give the president authority to ignore the debt limit. But in a July 25 tweet, Tribe wrote the amendment “prohibits any default on Treasury’s obligations” and that “if Congress fails to raise the debt limit, Executive action to avoid default arguably violates Congress’s exclusive power of the purse but is the lesser of two constitutional evils.”
Other academics contend there’s no basis for using the 14th Amendment to ignore the debt limit. “The 14th Amendment doesn’t authorize the taking of debt,” according to Ilya Shapiro, vice president and director of the Robert A. Levy Center for Constitutional Studies at the Cato Institute. “That’s the bottom line.”
Shapiro said the president can’t ignore the debt limit any more than he can “increase taxes or cut spending unilaterally.”
“There’s an academic dispute,” Shapiro said. “But the thing is, we’re in no danger of not serving the debt.” Shapiro said the Treasury would collect enough in revenue to continue paying bond holders if borrowing were halted. The government would have to temporarily halt some federal programs or reduce federal payments.

Republican lawmakers in the past argued the Treasury could prioritize debt payments while postponing other spending if the debt limit were not raised. Transcripts of meetings between Treasury and Federal Reserve officials during the 2011 and 2013 standoffs show debt prioritization was indeed under consideration.

Seems the argument is that the 14th prohibits default on the debt and therefore prioritizes that spending above others.

Even if that interpretation is not true, it is true that revenues are more than sufficient to service the debt though other government spending would suffer. The kicker is dispute over whether POTUS could effect this (rearrange spending priorities) or if that is the sole power of Congress.

 

[Franklin Pierce]

Senate approves short-term debt ceiling increase

The Senate on Thursday approved a deal to increase the debt ceiling and keep the country solvent into December, moving to stave off a default expected to occur in a matter of days.

Senators voted 50-48 along party lines on the short-term increase in the nation’s borrowing limit. GOP Sens. Richard Burr (N.C.) and Marsha Blackburn (Tenn.) didn’t vote. The bill still needs to pass the House, which is out of town, before being sent to President Biden’s desk.

Though the final vote, which required a simple majority, was along party lines, 11 Republican senators voted with Democrats to get the bill over a procedural hurdle that required 60 votes.

Under the agreement passed by the Senate, the debt ceiling will increase by $480 billion. The Treasury Department, according to Senate aides, thinks that will set up the next deadline for Dec. 3, the same day government funding is set to expire.

That effectively punts the debt fight until later in the year. But there was growing concern among senators in both parties that the stalemate didn’t have a clear offramp.

Senate approves short-term debt ceiling increase


Here are the 11 GOP senators who helped advance the debt extension

Eleven GOP senators voted with Democrats on Thursday to help advance a short-term debt ceiling extension.

The 61-38 vote advances the debt ceiling increase to final passage. Sixty votes were needed including the support of at least 10 GOP senators to help get it over the hurdle.

The GOP senators who helped advance the debt ceiling bill are:

Sen. John Barrasso (R-Wyo.)

Sen. Roy Blunt (R-Mo.)

Sen. Shelley Moore Capito (R-W.Va.)

Sen. Susan Collins (R-Maine)

Sen. John Cornyn (R-Texas)

Sen. Mitch McConnell (R-Ky.)

Sen. Lisa Murkowski (R-Alaska)

Sen. Rob Portman (R-Ohio)

Sen. Mike Rounds (R-S.D.)

Sen. Richard Shelby (R-Ala.)

Sen. John Thune (R-S.D.)

Here are the 11 GOP senators who helped advance the debt extension

 

[volfanhill]

Senate approves short-term debt ceiling increase

The Senate on Thursday approved a deal to increase the debt ceiling and keep the country solvent into December, moving to stave off a default expected to occur in a matter of days.

Senators voted 50-48 along party lines on the short-term increase in the nation’s borrowing limit. GOP Sens. Richard Burr (N.C.) and Marsha Blackburn (Tenn.) didn’t vote. The bill still needs to pass the House, which is out of town, before being sent to President Biden’s desk.

Though the final vote, which required a simple majority, was along party lines, 11 Republican senators voted with Democrats to get the bill over a procedural hurdle that required 60 votes.

Under the agreement passed by the Senate, the debt ceiling will increase by $480 billion. The Treasury Department, according to Senate aides, thinks that will set up the next deadline for Dec. 3, the same day government funding is set to expire.

That effectively punts the debt fight until later in the year. But there was growing concern among senators in both parties that the stalemate didn’t have a clear offramp.

Senate approves short-term debt ceiling increase


Here are the 11 GOP senators who helped advance the debt extension

Eleven GOP senators voted with Democrats on Thursday to help advance a short-term debt ceiling extension.

The 61-38 vote advances the debt ceiling increase to final passage. Sixty votes were needed including the support of at least 10 GOP senators to help get it over the hurdle.

The GOP senators who helped advance the debt ceiling bill are:

Sen. John Barrasso (R-Wyo.)

Sen. Roy Blunt (R-Mo.)

Sen. Shelley Moore Capito (R-W.Va.)

Sen. Susan Collins (R-Maine)

Sen. John Cornyn (R-Texas)

Sen. Mitch McConnell (R-Ky.)

Sen. Lisa Murkowski (R-Alaska)

Sen. Rob Portman (R-Ohio)

Sen. Mike Rounds (R-S.D.)

Sen. Richard Shelby (R-Ala.)

Sen. John Thune (R-S.D.)

Here are the 11 GOP senators who helped advance the debt extension

I remember how pissed you were when Trump advocated for it. Hypocrite .

 

[Franklin Pierce]

'Civility is gone': Joe Manchin buries his head in his hands and then tells Chuck Schumer his Senate speech attacking Republicans for the debt ceiling debacle is 'f***ing stupid'

Senator Joe Manchin confronted Chuck Schumer on the Senate floor Thursday night over his speech attacking Republicans for not assisting more in raising the debt ceiling.

Manchin sat behind Schumer as the Senate Majority Leader spoke, burying his face in his hands as Schumer blasted Republicans for playing a 'dangerous and risky partisan game' with the nation's ability to pay its bills and not default on its debt.

He told Schumer the speech was 'f***ing stupid,' Punchbowl DC reported, citing four sources.

Senator Joe Manchin (background) buried his head in his hands as Senator Chuck Schumer blasted Republicans for not assisting more with debt ceiling

Senate votes to PASS bill to temporarily lift debt limit by $480b | Daily Mail Online