Defensive debate and recruiting (split from Dawson thread)

#52
#52
jmoore_21 said:
If we had more than 3 capable DB's on the team we would be running dime packages & you wouldnt be seeing LB's & DE's covering a TE or RB.

I dont think Wilcox was able to run a dime package all year.
Click to expand...

Maybe so, but I'd rather have a below-average DB covering a TE/RB than our best DE.
 
#53
#53
Any smart person knows Dooley and this coaching staff were working short handed. I am proud of what they did. I have watched football a long time and have never seen a game like LSU and the N Carolina game this year. And to have it happen twice to the same team is unreal. I know we are headed in the right direction. Both on and off the field. When this coaching staff get the players we will be back in the BCS game. We need some big bodies on both side of the ball.
 
#54
#54
jmoore_21 said:
I'm guessing that has nothing to do with this team not having 2 1st round draft picks in Eric Berry & Dan Williams, having a solid CB in Dennis Rogan, having a solid LB in Rico McCoy, & actual serviceable DT's.

This years team had a OL turned DT starting in a few games, a walk-on DT that weighed less than 260, a 23 yr old True Freshmen SS that had'nt played football in 4 years, 2 1st year starters at CB, a S turned CB getting meaningful snaps, having 2 of the best DL go down in fall practice with season ending injuries. A DE turned DT mid-season.

Yea let's just forget about all of that & just say Tennessee had 1st round draft picks all across the board.
Click to expand...

One could make the argument that Williams was made into a 1st round pick by Orgeron and Kiffin.

The 09 season was the only year he played at a consistent level.
 
#56
#56
justingroves said:
One could make the argument that Williams was made into a 1st round pick by Orgeron and Kiffin.

The 09 season was the only year he played at a consistent level.
Click to expand...

I could accept that argument, still doenst look over the fact they had ALOT more talent on Defense than Wilcox had this year.
 
#57
#57
justingroves said:
One could make the argument that Williams was made into a 1st round pick by Orgeron and Kiffin.

The 09 season was the only year he played at a consistent level.
Click to expand...

There is no argument to make...I would bet any amount of money that Dan will be the first to admit that Ed was huge in his development.
 
#58
#58
GahLee said:
This is ignorant.

You give one example and expect that to stick?

We have a number of good players for us, just no depth, to say we have MTSU/Vandy type talent on defense is just an absurd statement.

Maybe MTSU/Vandy type depth...maybe.
Click to expand...

I'll have to agree with MTSU/Vandy type talent. The talent we have has to play the wrong positions because of need. This causes their talent to be diminished. You want to tell me we have talent, who? JJ, misses as many tackles as anyone on the team. Nick R, s l o w. We are just depleted. We have the talent to win 6 games a year, thats what we did.
 
#59
#59
jmoore_21 said:
I could accept that argument, still doenst look over the fact they had ALOT more talent on Defense than Wilcox had this year.
Click to expand...

They did have a lot more talent, they also did more with it...our D last years was better.

We are shrot-handed and the talent level from last year to this year is a significant drop-off but so are the results.

You can talk about sacks and int's all you want, we werent very good, for whatever reason.

It is too early to tell what he can do cause he doesn't have the personnel.
 
#60
#60
GahLee said:
They did have a lot more talent, they also did more with it...our D last years was better.

We are shrot-handed and the talent level from last year to this year is a significant drop-off but so are the results.

You can talk about sacks and int's all you want, we werent very good, for whatever reason.

It is too early to tell what he can do cause he doesn't have the personnel.
Click to expand...

I'm not arguing which defense was better, because obviously last years defense was alot better than this years. All I'm saying is that Wilcox doesnt suck as DC like some people think. People keep blaming Wilcox for this & that when he had alot less talent to work with than almost any DC in UT history.
 
#61
#61
KingtUT said:
I'll have to agree with MTSU/Vandy type talent. The talent we have has to play the wrong positions because of need. This causes their talent to be diminished. You want to tell me we have talent, who? JJ, misses as many tackles as anyone on the team. Nick R, s l o w. We are just depleted. We have the talent to win 6 games a year, thats what we did.
Click to expand...

You're a fool if you think that.

Nick is a heck of a player, he isn't going to blow you away with his attributes but he gets the damn job done.

Jackson may try to make the big hit toomuch but he also makes amazing plays like the interception in the endzone.

Walker/Williams are much better than MTSU type talent.

So are Waggner/Gordon/Teague/Brewer.

Like I said earlier, maybe depth wise we are in the same boat but not as far the talent of our 1's.

It's not even a question.
 
#62
#62
jmoore_21 said:
I'm not arguing which defense was better, because obviously last years defense was alot better than this years. All I'm saying is that Wilcox doesnt suck as DC like some people think. People keep blaming Wilcox for this & that when he had alot less talent to work with than almost any DC in UT history.
Click to expand...

It's hard for me to find evidence Wilcox isn't a solid DC. Whether he will be great is yet to be seen, but he can definitely get the job done good enough to win games.
 
#63
#63
jmoore_21 said:
I'm not arguing which defense was better, because obviously last years defense was alot better than this years. All I'm saying is that Wilcox doesnt suck as DC like some people think. People keep blaming Wilcox for this & that when he had alot less talent to work with than almost any DC in UT history.
Click to expand...

That is true, we can agree on the overall talent compared to years past, that is not deniable.

I guess I'm still on the fence due to not having seen everything yet. Schematically I wasn't blown away with what he did, that could be personnel, that could be how he rolls, hopefully we will get to see what his D looks like at 100%.
 
Last edited:
#64
#64
GahLee said:
That is true, we can agree on the overall talent compared to years past, that is not deniable.

I guess I'm still on the fence due to not having seen everything yet. Schematically i wasn't blown away wioth what he did, that could be personnel, that could be how he rolls, hopefully we will get to see what his D looks like at 100%.
Click to expand...

IMO it had alot more to do with him just not having the talent or depth (especially in the secondary) to be able to run the stuff he wants. Wilcox has alot more up his sleeve, he was known for blitzing alot at Boise State & we really didnt see that alot this season mainly because he had to use alot more zone coverage with 3 CB's because we werent able to put 4-5 CB's on the field at the same time.
 
#65
#65
jmoore_21 said:
IMO it had alot more to do with him just not having the talent or depth (especially in the secondary) to be able to run the stuff he wants. Wilcox has alot more up his sleeve, he was known for blitzing alot at Boise State & we really didnt see that alot this season mainly because he had to use alot more zone coverage with 3 CB's because we werent able to put 4-5 CB's on the field at the same time.
Click to expand...

We'll see, he will have his chance to really prove himself.
 
#66
#66
GahLee said:
That is true, we can agree on the overall talent compared to years past, that is not deniable.

I guess I'm still on the fence due to not having seen everything yet. Schematically i wasn't blown away wioth what he did, that could be personnel, that could be how he rolls, hopefully we will get to see what his D looks like at 100%.
Click to expand...

DCs are not much different than OCs. If your missing pieces, your hamstrung as to what you can do to an extent. Monte was limited last year, just as Wilcox was this year.
He will have more pieces next year, but even at that he still will have limits.

IMO we are still this class on one more from getting back close to the numbers we should be at.
 
#67
#67
GahLee said:
This is ignorant.

You give one example and expect that to stick?

We have a number of good players for us, just no depth, to say we have MTSU/Vandy type talent on defense is just an absurd statement.

Maybe MTSU/Vandy type depth...maybe.
Click to expand...

lylsmorr said:
Actually, I didn't mean talent level. We have some talented freshmen, but freshmen aren't expected to come in and contribute right away. Nor is a season DE supposed to make the switch to DT midseason. What has happened to our defense this season is not the norm.
Click to expand...

.
 
#68
#68
Let's not even mention We have asked these kids to learn a new D each of the last 3 seasons. CJW is also in his FIRST year as DC. It does take a little time to develop your personnel have them adjust to your scheme. Lets not forget We were running very close to Monte's scheme already with CJC too.
 
#69
#69
VoL BaLL 777 said:
Exactly. But don't use facts here. Everyone loves our average at best DC, that was already looking for coaches to take with him to Texas.
Posted via VolNation Mobile
Click to expand...

Congradulations 777 you just made my ignore list,along side SGM...I am tired of all the negative crap! :crazy:
 
#70
#70
jmoore_21 said:
I'm not arguing which defense was better, because obviously last years defense was alot better than this years. All I'm saying is that Wilcox doesnt suck as DC like some people think. People keep blaming Wilcox for this & that when he had alot less talent to work with than almost any DC in UT history.
Click to expand...

Also, look at the late season improvement. We held Kentucky to their lowest point total of the season. We held Ole Miss to their 2nd lowest point total of the season (Alabama held them to 10).

Our two minute defense against UNC was abysmal, but outside of that, we held them to 4.6 yards per carry in regulation and 3.0 in the last three quarters. Overall, we held them to 5.6, which was still below their average. When you consider that we only have five DBs (2 freshmen and 3 sophomores), the poor two minute defense is to be expected. But the fact that we shut UNC down for the rest of the game says a lot for Wilcox. As did the performances against Ole Miss and Kentucky.
 
#71
#71
It has been said here that Wilcox left a lot on the table this year schematically. If you look at past Boise St defenses I would have to agree. There is a reason he had to do this and I think it speaks more for what he had to work with than his ability and ceiling as a DC...

I am very glad he is staying. Right now we need stability every bit as much as talent.. Too much change scares recruits. I believe we will be very happy with Wilcox in a couple of years..

edit: Except for the very end unfortunately, IMO they played very well late in the game against NC..
 
#73
#73
Seriously guys, why argue with SGM? It is like trying to argue with a rock. Just put him on ignore and quitting quoting the guy.
 
#74
#74
tennezz said:
Congradulations 777 you just made my ignore list,along side SGM...I am tired of all the negative crap! :crazy:
Click to expand...

I guess 777 is the real expert here from his armchair and is one of the great minds of our time in judging coach talent. He can also take a rumor and conjure up reality in his own mind.

We need him to apply to the Athletic Dept. to help hire future coaches because of his deep insight on talent.

CDD should consult this brilliant mind before making any further moves.
 
#75
#75
volroadwarrior said:
I guess 777 is the real expert here from his armchair and is one of the great minds of our time in judging coach talent. He can also take a rumor and conjure up reality in his own mind.

We need him to apply to the Athletic Dept. to help hire future coaches because of his deep insight on talent.

CDD should consult this brilliant mind before making any further moves.
Click to expand...

You just insulted half the fan base.
 
New posts
You must log in or register to reply here.

VN Store



Back
Top