Department of Government Efficiency - DOGE

[hog88]

And yet the check and balance exists and so does the stupidity of crying "unelected" as if that's not what we want. Just like we want freedom of speech even for the speech that we hate, we value the concept of checks and balances even when we don't like every consequence of that reality.

Yes, checks and balances exist however this isn't one of those cases. The courts have no authority to prevent the executive branch from investigating, auditing or managing the operations of the executive branch. That would be like the AG telling a circuit court which judge is allowed to hear which case. Think that would stand?

 

[apevol]

Elon had TOP Secret Clearance before Trump was sworn in, given to him by Biden or Obama.

you sure?

 

[Sgt_Nick_Fury]

you sure?

Per grok....(treat him as a hostile witness if you like....)

Based on the available information, Elon Musk received his top-secret security clearance in 2022. This is supported by multiple references:

• Posts on X mention that Elon Musk was granted top-secret security clearance in 2022.
• Web search results, including reports from various news outlets, confirm that Musk's top-secret clearance was obtained in that year, with some delays due to concerns about his drug use after smoking marijuana on Joe Rogan's podcast in 2018.

 

[walkenvol]

the judge will have to do it himself.

Trump should have the military arrest these judges for interference of enforcement of federal law.

Are you saying a federal judge will show up at the White House with a gun and cuffs and haul Trump off to some jail? I can’t see any way that could happen? The secret service isn’t going to part like the Red Sea to let psycho judge through.

 

[Vol423]

and the left continues to turn US into a banana republic

Wow. Breaking news: Idiot federal judge is way out over his skis.

 

[Orange_Crush]

I can’t believe people are on this site disparaging DOGE. If that’s you then you are beyond help.

How can you possibly read my posts and wonder if I am disparaging DOGE?

 

[apevol]

Per grok....(treat him as a hostile witness if you like....)

Based on the available information, Elon Musk received his top-secret security clearance in 2022. This is supported by multiple references:

• Posts on X mention that Elon Musk was granted top-secret security clearance in 2022.
• Web search results, including reports from various news outlets, confirm that Musk's top-secret clearance was obtained in that year, with some delays due to concerns about his drug use after smoking marijuana on Joe Rogan's podcast in 2018.

Elon Musk will not receive highest-level government security clearance – reports

The SpaceX head has been advised to not seek the same over his drug use and contacts with foreign nationals

www.theguardian.com

 

[Sgt_Nick_Fury]

the judge will have to do it himself.

Trump should have the military arrest these judges for interference of enforcement of federal law.

The President also has some limitations, but he can and should asign an inspecter general to investigate said judge, his behavior and adherence to constitutional law or it's obstruction. Congress could also act as far as removing judge but I wouldn't hold my breath. It would quicker to investigate and indict and thus remove them from the bench until congress gets around to it.

 

[ButchPlz]

Elon Musk will not receive highest-level government security clearance – reports

The SpaceX head has been advised to not seek the same over his drug use and contacts with foreign nationals

www.theguardian.com

...I wouldn't expect him to have that level of clearance. Nor does he need it for what he's doing. Do you know how clearances work?

 

[hog88]

Elon Musk will not receive highest-level government security clearance – reports

The SpaceX head has been advised to not seek the same over his drug use and contacts with foreign nationals

www.theguardian.com

From your link.

Musk currently holds a “top-secret” clearance that took years to obtain after he discussed use of marijuana on a 2018 podcast with Joe Rogan, according to the outlet. But that may not be enough to have access to information about US government payloads in his rockets.

 

[Sgt_Nick_Fury]

Elon Musk will not receive highest-level government security clearance – reports

The SpaceX head has been advised to not seek the same over his drug use and contacts with foreign nationals

www.theguardian.com

I'm gonna go with Grok on this over the "Guardian" and that that article was before he got cleared. Several other places have made mention of his clearance.

 

[LouderVol]

Elon had TOP Secret Clearance before Trump was sworn in, given to him by Biden or Obama. As for tehse specific depts, I am sure DOGE is getting orders from the President. Several statements and articles have stated Trump is directing where he wants DOGE to look and audit, and that he is directing them. In Any case it's clear to me you're really just looking for loopholes......you know damn well from common sense any President should be able to audit the executive branch of govt, and anyone they appoint should be allowed to audit their own depts. To think otherwise is insane.

So then what is the real argument here? Other then stalling so people can try and cover up their crimes?

What other purpose can there be to stop these audits then to cover up malfeasance?

I have never argued to stop the audits. that is just a made up argument. I even said one of the judges went too far, but that gets ignored by those slurping on Trump too much to read what I actually say.

my whole argument the ENTIRE TIME is not what they are doing, but HOW they are doing it. that doesn't mean that every criticism they receive is legit, just like it doesn't mean that every critique is bad.

EVERYTHING Trump and or DOGE does now, enables the Democrats to do more and worse when they take the office back at some point. A runamok DOGE ran by a Democrat is just as bad as any other runamok agency. but yall are too focused on the instant gratification to see any future, despite the fact that that instant gratification attitude is exactly what lead us to our current mess.

 

[ButchPlz]

I feel right now like a pilot or flight investigator must feel when suddenly everyone becomes an armchair aviation engineer whenever there's a plane crash.

Or how a meteorologist must feel when a hurricane shows up in the ocean and suddenly everyone is offering their half-assed opinions on spaghetti graphs or whatever and trying to get off over potential damage and storm size.

 

[ButchPlz]

I have never argued to stop the audits. that is just a made up argument. I even said one of the judges went too far, but that gets ignored by those slurping on Trump too much to read what I actually say.

my whole argument the ENTIRE TIME is not what they are doing, but HOW they are doing it. that doesn't mean that every criticism they receive is legit, just like it doesn't mean that every critique is bad.

EVERYTHING Trump and or DOGE does now, enables the Democrats to do more and worse when they take the office back at some point. A runamok DOGE ran by a Democrat is just as bad as any other runamok agency. but yall are too focused on the instant gratification to see any future, despite the fact that that instant gratification attitude is exactly what lead us to our current mess.

What do you not understand about the fact that the USDS has already existed, with more-or-less the exact same accesses (just hidden in the shadows) since the Obama administration?

It's now out in the open. It's now auditing, publicly, which is what we should want. It's operating outside of the shadows, transparently.

Like I said, go read the EO.

 

[whodeycin85]

I have never argued to stop the audits. that is just a made up argument. I even said one of the judges went too far, but that gets ignored by those slurping on Trump too much to read what I actually say.

my whole argument the ENTIRE TIME is not what they are doing, but HOW they are doing it. that doesn't mean that every criticism they receive is legit, just like it doesn't mean that every critique is bad.

EVERYTHING Trump and or DOGE does now, enables the Democrats to do more and worse when they take the office back at some point. A runamok DOGE ran by a Democrat is just as bad as any other runamok agency. but yall are too focused on the instant gratification to see any future, despite the fact that that instant gratification attitude is exactly what lead us to our current mess.

Regardless of what Trump does the next time the DNC is back in control they will do it anyway...that what your missing...regardless whether Trump does or doesn't do something authoritative the DNC have and will continue to to do it and do it on an even larger scale...so your idea is to what keep the status QUO? Hope congress can amended the constitution that the DNC ignores...seems your just complaining to complain because it doesn't fit you Utopian idea of what should be done.

 

[LouderVol]

What do you not understand about the fact that the USDS has already existed, with more-or-less the exact same accesses (just hidden in the shadows) since the Obama administration?

It's now out in the open. It's now auditing, publicly, which is what we should want. It's operating outside of the shadows, transparently.

Like I said, go read the EO.

how is that relevant to anything I have argued? I literally just told you that I didn't care that they are doing the audits.

and no they aren't being transparent.
Who is actually doing the auditing? Musk was saying it was a crime to have their names posted. that is hardly being transparent.
What is their actual clearance or expertise in whatever they are auditing?
Are the things we hear about the ONLY things they have reviewed? Or has there been more that has passed?
is literally everything ACTUALLY being reviewed, or is it just chasing down red meat?

if they are being transparent why is Musk trying to drag in the democracy argument into the matter. At "biggest" its an executive office matter, and has absolutely nothing to do with the democracy this nation isn't. he is muddying the waters.

 

[jmacvols1]

Are you saying a federal judge will show up at the White House with a gun and cuffs and haul Trump off to some jail? I can’t see any way that could happen? The secret service isn’t going to part like the Red Sea to let psycho judge through.

the point I was trying to make was if the judge doesn't arrest Trump, who will

 

[ButchPlz]

how is that relevant to anything I have argued? I literally just told you that I didn't care that they are doing the audits.

and no they aren't being transparent.
Who is actually doing the auditing? Musk was saying it was a crime to have their names posted. that is hardly being transparent.
What is their actual clearance or expertise in whatever they are auditing?
Are the things we hear about the ONLY things they have reviewed? Or has there been more that has passed?
is literally everything ACTUALLY being reviewed, or is it just chasing down red meat?

if they are being transparent why is Musk trying to drag in the democracy argument into the matter. At "biggest" its an executive office matter, and has absolutely nothing to do with the democracy this nation isn't. he is muddying the waters.

Every single question you are asking is answered in the establishment of the USDS. Don't ask me, Elon Musk, or Donald Trump the question. Ask the Obama administration, who provided the mission, framework, and guidelines for how the agency was to operate and the Congresses that keep funding it.

Just because you were ignorant of the existence of the agency before doesn't mean you get to just now start complaining. It's operating within the precedence and framework that the Executive and Legislative established, and which the Judicial never had an issue (and, legally, shouldn't even be able to step into) until the last 48 hours. Once I actually took the time to realize it was a repurposed agency that I'm familiar with (through my job), I understood exactly what was going on.

 

[apevol]

From your link.

he didn't have sufficient clearance to even step foot in the majority of buildings starshield work was being done. He had lower clearances than hundreds of his own employees

 

[LouderVol]

Regardless of what Trump does the next time the DNC is back in control they will do it anyway...that what your missing...regardless whether Trump does or doesn't do something authoritative the DNC have and will continue to to do it and do it on an even larger scale...so your idea is to what keep the status QUO? Hope congress can amended the constitution that the DNC ignores...seems your just complaining to complain because it doesn't fit you Utopian idea of what should be done.

I want to fix the issues. yall are bailing water and ignoring the hole in the boat. just because someone has a pail doesn't mean anything is fixed or the nation is saved.

you stop it by actually fixing the issues, not just treating the symptoms. until Congress is held in check, and or the executive office you are just going to see the same issue crop up under a different name and political letter.

the retaliatory stuff needs to stop, and that starts with whoever is in charge, at this point that is Trump. after the election all yall were crowing about how turnabout was fair play, and now Trump is going to do X, Y, and Z, because the Demtards did it first. its childish and its not actually fixing anything.

I want to see Trump shut down this coming budget if it isn't actually in budget. otherwise he is just producing more work for DOGE. I don't see him pushing the R members of Congress on budget items. relying on DOGE is just a half measure of political window dressing. Where is any effort to cut any of the Republican sacred cows? If they were serious about actually bringing the budget in line, surely there would be a least one Conservative item worth DOGE's review found by now. if he is serious lets see him cut both sides.

otherwise its just more of the same. The Republicans taking money from the Democrats items to spend on their own items. then the Democrats come in and take money from the Republicans to spend on Democrats items.

 

[ButchPlz]

he didn't have sufficient clearance to even step foot in the majority of buildings starshield work was being done. He had lower clearances than hundreds of his own employees

I will ask again, do you know how clearances work? Do you know what level of clearance one has to have to do much of anything? What clearance is required to access the systems he's accessing? I guarantee that if he didn't have clearance for this, in this environment, he'd already be in jail.

For instance, did you know there is no clearance required to access complete records of all VA users and dependents? Or for anyone that is using GSA services, or government grants? All that exists is a rule on how to handle it.

 

[hog88]

he didn't have sufficient clearance to even step foot in the majority of buildings starshield work was being done. He had lower clearances than hundreds of his own employees

He had enough clearance to do what he needed to do. You should read up on security clearances.

 

[LouderVol]

Every single question you are asking is answered in the establishment of the USDS. Don't ask me, Elon Musk, or Donald Trump the question. Ask the Obama administration, who provided the mission, framework, and guidelines for how the agency was to operate and the Congresses that keep funding it.

Just because you were ignorant of the existence of the agency before doesn't mean you get to just now start complaining. It's operating within the precedence and framework that the Executive and Legislative established, and which the Judicial never had an issue (and, legally, shouldn't even be able to step into) until the last 48 hours. Once I actually took the time to realize it was a repurposed agency that I'm familiar with (through my job), I understood exactly what was going on.

so an Obama Executive Order from 2014 is telling me who is doing the cutting in 2025? What their qualifications and clearances are? What all they have reviewed?

come on man, thats bs.

USDS was to increase the reliability of our country's Digital Services. focused on the actual digital infrastructure that civilians actually interfaced with. Not really sure how USAID fits into that framework. I don't see anything about them handling any secure information, dealing with the actual payment process to US citizens, or them dealing with anything outside the physical footprint of the US.

 

[ButchPlz]

so an Obama Executive Order from 2014 is telling me who is doing the cutting in 2025? What their qualifications and clearances are? What all they have reviewed?

come on man, thats bs.

USDS was to increase the reliability of our country's Digital Services. focused on the actual digital infrastructure that civilians actually interfaced with. Not really sure how USAID fits into that framework. I don't see anything about them handling any secure information, dealing with the actual payment process to US citizens, or them dealing with anything outside the physical footprint of the US.

USDS has/had much broader powers than "improving the digital infrastructure civilians interface with". Part of its mission was, and remains, modernizing internal transactions between agencies and within agencies. In one agency I work with, USDS assisted the agency with setting up tools to reduce undelivered orders...i.e., obligated funds that had no contract deliveries against them OR where projects were coming in under budget. In another, they facilitated records transitions between two of the US' biggest agencies. On the customer-facing side, USDS had unlimited access to civilian user records to help build some of its UX learning models.

Again, I'm telling you- the USDS already has this access. Its employees by and large already have to be cleared (per agency requirements) and are already sweeping funds (as per precedent). For instance, as part of the UDO work, the USDS recommended if not outright ended contracts that weren't delivering. Their tools were used to "sweep" obligated funds back into the coffers. Literally no different than what DOGE is doing very loudly. Have you ever heard of the concept in government of "mid-year sweeps"?

You can bitch all you want, but you weren't bitching before. I'd rather these relatively hidden bureaucracies be turned for good for once than have them keep operating in hiding. But you do you- you didn't know it was another service before, so if you want to scream in ignorance, that's fine.

 

[apevol]

He had enough clearance to do what he needed to do. You should read up on security clearances.

you're right, he just lacked compartmentalized clearance